Highest flowing sbm heads?

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Phreakish said:
Lots will dismiss this, but it's a good description of what it took to make 700+ hp from 440 inches of LS "small block"
The short list includes 14:1+, custom hydraulic lifters with only 0.012" of travel, 258/276 @.050 cam, and well over 8k rpm. Some things could probably be tweaked, but it gives some insight.

How to Upgrade a Stock Eliminator COPO Camaro LS7 Engine
Click to expand...
Exactly illustrates my points. I was thinking about trying to find a modern build as a reference point. 700 from a small displacement engine, even in a highly tuned modern engine, is a lofty goal.
 
Phreakish said:
Lots will dismiss this, but it's a good description of what it took to make 700+ hp from 440 inches of LS "small block"
The short list includes 14:1+, custom hydraulic lifters with only 0.012" of travel, 258/276 @.050 cam, and well over 8k rpm. Some things could probably be tweaked, but it gives some insight.

How to Upgrade a Stock Eliminator COPO Camaro LS7 Engine
Click to expand...



Highest flowing small block MOpAR heads and someone has to bring this trash into the discussion. Great job.
 
Mean416 said:
Exactly illustrates my points. I was thinking about trying to find a modern build as a reference point. 700 from a small displacement engine, even in a highly tuned modern engine, is a lofty goal.
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I'm sure there's other ways to skin the cat, and these guys were working in the confines of nhra rules.

The consistent elements for similar builds seem to be low friction coatings, low friction rings, 8k+ rpm, and very good windage control.

There are practical approaches to all that, but sciencing it out is no easy feat.

Our engines have challenging pushrod angles, and constrained port geometry which limits (quality) flow to some extent.
 
pittsburghracer said:
Highest flowing small block MOpAR heads and someone has to bring this trash into the discussion. Great job.
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After 20+ pages of derailment, the topic seemed to land at 700hp from a small block.

Engines are just air pumps. The attributes which made an honest 700+ from a 4" stroke and 4.1+ bore seemed relevant IMO.

The fact it took so much compression and a bore that's not possible with a stock Mopar block seems to rule out a stock block and pump gas.
 
Jack at Valley performance and Machine built a 370 ish inch 360 that is under 12 to 1( it will run on pump gas) that made anywhere from about 740 to 780 depending on what dyno it was on.
uses production 360 block, and a very small duration cam(255@50) won a big competition with it. Have posted the build story on here several times, easy to find the info.
it uses Eddie Victor heads.
could make 800 very easily according to Jack with bigger cam, etc.
 
B3422w5 said:
Jack at Valley performance and Machine built a 370 ish inch 360 that is under 12 to 1( it will run on pump gas) that made anywhere from about 740 to 780 depending on what dyno it was on.
uses production 360 block, and a very small duration cam(255@50) won a big competition with it. Have posted the build story on here several times, easy to find the info.
it uses Eddie Victor heads.
could make 800 very easily according to Jack with bigger cam, etc.
Click to expand...

This the engine?
Race Engine Challenge 360 Magnum – Valley Performance & Machine Service

Impressive.

LA Family: Valley Performance and Machine Service builds a 7,500-rpm Small-Block

This link has some good details too. Windage control, oil control, etc.
 
so if Joe Schmo walked in off the street I can only imagine what the bill would be on that build. Wonder if the mill ever ended up in a car?
 
Valley Performance and Machine Service’s 376 cid Mopar Engine

"“We had the factory stock block cryogenically treated in Grand Rapids, MI, making it 30 to 40 percent stronger than factory,” Barna says. “I’m a believer in that process. We’ve been doing more and more of that lately.”"

I did some cryo treating of 7075 alum parts back in the day, and that process is no joke. Really helps make materials more consistent and less crack prone. Steel tends to gain a ton of strength too.
 
A body said:
so if Joe Schmo walked in off the street I can only imagine what the bill would be on that build. Wonder if the mill ever ended up in a car?
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he has a 66 Belvedere wagon he races ( runs 10.70 with a stock stroke 360 in it, Eddie heads)and has been threatening to stick this motor in it, if it doesn’t sell. He wants 15k complete for it.
at some point, it may well go down the track, thinks it will run bottom 9’s in his Wagon..weighs 3500 or so with him

Edit, the wagon doesn’t have Eddie heads on it, they are those heads like Brian at IMM sold
 
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A body said:
so if Joe Schmo walked in off the street I can only imagine what the bill would be on that build. Wonder if the mill ever ended up in a car?
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Article states 3-400 hours. Even at $50/hr (cheap), that's... Yeah. Plus parts..

The fact they've shared so much of what it took is awesome.
 
Honestly 15k for that is a really good deal….. there‘s a lot of thought and time in that for sure.
 
A body said:
Honestly 15k for that is a really good deal….. there‘s a lot of thought and time in that for sure.
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Jack told me more camshaft and squeeze it would make well over 800

the heads are just pretty much just cnc ported, think they go like 370. They could be improved a good bit, definately more on the table
 
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Phreakish said:
After 20+ pages of derailment, the topic seemed to land at 700hp from a small block.

Engines are just air pumps. The attributes which made an honest 700+ from a 4" stroke and 4.1+ bore seemed relevant IMO.

The fact it took so much compression and a bore that's not possible with a stock Mopar block seems to rule out a stock block and pump gas.
Click to expand...
There is a member I know that is currently working on a better part of 800 hp stroked small block mopar. I was told it will be done late spring possibly early summer with the current parts delays. I will ask him to post up any details he would like to share after it is done and dyno'd.
 
fishmens67 said:
Show me the guy that makes 2hp per cube on pump gas.
360ci x 2hp = 720hp or 408ci x 2hp= 816 hp
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Bruce Robertson AKA Shrinker.......

Maybe you could explain why it can't be done?
 
B3422w5 said:
Jack at Valley performance and Machine built a 370 ish inch 360 that is under 12 to 1( it will run on pump gas) that made anywhere from about 740 to 780 depending on what dyno it was on.
uses production 360 block, and a very small duration cam(255@50) won a big competition with it. Have posted the build story on here several times, easy to find the info.
it uses Eddie Victor heads.
could make 800 very easily according to Jack with bigger cam, etc.
Click to expand...
That's an amazing build, thanks for sharing. Shows what some creativity and an incredibly well sorted build can accomplish. Mind blown!

This definitely makes me lean towards the victor heads.

This brings some questions and takeaways to mind for me:

1. Cryo treatment of the OEM magnum block
2. Suggested superior metallurgy in the Magnum. I wonder what testing if any has been done to come to that conclusion.
3. Wow they bored that thing out a bunch. I wonder if the block was filled? I bet that helps a good bit with deshrouding the valves.
4. I wonder how much power was gained with the oil mods?
5. Interesting that they went counter to conventional wisdom and went with 4 bolt caps.
 
Mean416 said:
That's an amazing build, thanks for sharing. Shows what some creativity and an incredibly well sorted build can accomplish. Mind blown!

This definitely makes me lean towards the victor heads.

This brings some questions and takeaways to mind for me:

1. Cryo treatment of the OEM magnum block
2. Suggested superior metallurgy in the Magnum. I wonder what testing if any has been done to come to that conclusion.
3. Wow they bored that thing out a bunch. I wonder if the block was filled? I bet that helps a good bit with deshrouding the valves.
4. I wonder how much power was gained with the oil mods?
5. Interesting that they went counter to conventional wisdom and went with 4 bolt caps.
Click to expand...
Cryo treatment the block, pay to have a short fill done and buy hard to get 4 bolt caps and have installed in an oem block which there is not enough meat in that area and great builders would not recommend that but so after you go to all this trouble and expense and make all kinds of power and then one day the block fails what are you going to do next? Repeat it all over again or buy a real block that has zero percent chance of failing at those power levels.
 
These competition builds aren’t built to last long as they don’t have to. Lots of tricks involved, over boring is common, and I’ve even seen blocks cut and rewelded to get oil away from the crank. Then again it’s only “dyno numbers”.
 
pittsburghracer said:
These competition builds aren’t built to last long as they don’t have to. Lots of tricks involved, over boring is common, and I’ve even seen blocks cut and rewelded to get oil away from the crank. Then again it’s only “dyno numbers”.
Click to expand...
I don't think I've seen many actually make it into a vehicle to be used.
 
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