PRH
Well-Known Member
I’m pretty sure Brett Miller made 1000hp with the Victors(that he ported).
Highest flowing sbm heads?
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B3422w5
Well-Known Member
Believe Brett did one that made more than that.Good bit more.
The 376 inch motor I posted on here that made 737 and won his class made 737 in North Carolina and made 770+ in his testing prior to the competition.
should be noted he had to run mufflers during the competition, and the room where the pulls were made was open to the outside. Humid 90 degree day.
That motor only had a 255@50 roller, and was under 12 to 1
He told me( local to me and does my stuff, Jack at Valley performance) he could make 800 without working up a sweat if he didn’t have to follow guidelines the dyno competition mandated. More cam, more squeeze, more inches, etc.
He really likes the heads
justinp61
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Have those motors been to the drag strip yet?
B3422w5
Well-Known Member
the motor the local shop to me built( the 376) hasn’t. He had it for sale, still might.
But he told me plans to put it in his 66 belevedere wagon and race it next year.
car current has a stock stroke 360 in it that runs 10.70’s at 3500 pounds. Have raced with him, he is a very good driver for not getting out much.
Motor Brett built, I have no idea
Wow. 29 pages of this. Gonna have to go back to post 1 and re read wm all again but not now.
It's great to get these humongous flow numbers but there comes a point that everyone isn't going for 10000 hp mountain motors for 1/4 mile competition, on which most of the time when you get into the higher brackets the car is no longer street legal anymore, for other reasons ... for those of us building a nice street cruiser or even stoplight drag car, there is no way an engine in these categories can even use that much flow.... Just because the heads flow "x" doesn't mean the engine can possibly use it, will only flow what they're capable of....
That said, without a pissing match, a lot of us are limited to "stock on hand", live paycheck to paycheck, but just want to have a little fun....
Considering the 302 heads, they used to be thought of as the "cats ***"... Now everyone says they're garbage.
Is there a chart somewhere that tells from worst to best (maybe by casting numbers) how factory heads rank?
Granted when ported some of that goes out the window.....
But in my case I have a 318 that I just want to "wake up a little " on a car that will never be raced, still has its original '163 open chamber heads, that have never been off since the engine was originally built on the assembly line... It runs alright for what it is, but the guides are shot, I put new seals on with heads still in the car, which improved things( it had sat a while, was using more oil than I thought it should once I got it on the road again)
I HAVE a set of fresh from the machine shop 302s, all new valves,etc .. that I want to swap on .. I will be going to a mild step up cam and a 4bbl, at the same time. Car currently is bone dead stock (still running lean burn even which will also be coming off at same time)
I'm NOT pulling the whole engine, it has less than 60k miles from new. And I've had it long enough to know that for sure the odo hasn't flipped.
I do plan on going back into those 302s and just cleaning up the casting burrs, and smoothing things out a bit.... Nothing crazy.
All else the same, now the "experts" say that it won't make a difference whether I leave the original heads or put my 302s on?????
It all depends on what you want from your combo. In my case I ain't running a tach but have before on other cars. You guys may resent this but seriously I doubt this engine has ever seen 4000 rpm.... Even if I had the money for (example) Edelbrock heads, in a case like mine would they really make THAT much difference in performance????
That said I have done the magnum head swap into an LA a couple of times over the years and yes that did make a difference. But I don't have any good ones of those around at the moment...
It's great to get these humongous flow numbers but there comes a point that everyone isn't going for 10000 hp mountain motors for 1/4 mile competition, on which most of the time when you get into the higher brackets the car is no longer street legal anymore, for other reasons ... for those of us building a nice street cruiser or even stoplight drag car, there is no way an engine in these categories can even use that much flow.... Just because the heads flow "x" doesn't mean the engine can possibly use it, will only flow what they're capable of....
That said, without a pissing match, a lot of us are limited to "stock on hand", live paycheck to paycheck, but just want to have a little fun....
Considering the 302 heads, they used to be thought of as the "cats ***"... Now everyone says they're garbage.
Is there a chart somewhere that tells from worst to best (maybe by casting numbers) how factory heads rank?
Granted when ported some of that goes out the window.....
But in my case I have a 318 that I just want to "wake up a little " on a car that will never be raced, still has its original '163 open chamber heads, that have never been off since the engine was originally built on the assembly line... It runs alright for what it is, but the guides are shot, I put new seals on with heads still in the car, which improved things( it had sat a while, was using more oil than I thought it should once I got it on the road again)
I HAVE a set of fresh from the machine shop 302s, all new valves,etc .. that I want to swap on .. I will be going to a mild step up cam and a 4bbl, at the same time. Car currently is bone dead stock (still running lean burn even which will also be coming off at same time)
I'm NOT pulling the whole engine, it has less than 60k miles from new. And I've had it long enough to know that for sure the odo hasn't flipped.
I do plan on going back into those 302s and just cleaning up the casting burrs, and smoothing things out a bit.... Nothing crazy.
All else the same, now the "experts" say that it won't make a difference whether I leave the original heads or put my 302s on?????
It all depends on what you want from your combo. In my case I ain't running a tach but have before on other cars. You guys may resent this but seriously I doubt this engine has ever seen 4000 rpm.... Even if I had the money for (example) Edelbrock heads, in a case like mine would they really make THAT much difference in performance????
That said I have done the magnum head swap into an LA a couple of times over the years and yes that did make a difference. But I don't have any good ones of those around at the moment...
@volaredon You are correct on how much an engine can consume and part of it is the intake track combined with camshaft. While the 302 heads, in stock form, are not much to talk about it is actually what it is they’re capable of for what they are. This is where everybody seems to get confused and disillusioned.
302 vs other 273/318 heads is a point of argument. Chrysler MP said the 302 is the go to head and while it was available new at the time made it the best bet when starting from scratch. That’s against using an older head possibly needing more work. How each of these heads ports out, I don’t know.
Then of course, there’s a step up to a 340/360 head. Which can be a draw back with its larger runners and chambers. How this larger head can be better is more leaning to a race engine rather than the grocery getter. And so on up the ladder we go.
I don’t think the 302 head is garbage but more misunderstood and mis used with improper execution expectations and lack of experience.
As cast, all the 273/318 heads flow in the same area. Some will sight flow differences even though the same differences can be found in the same casting of the same head and yes, even the same year. The bottom line on cylinder head use for a mild hop up is just to simply use what you have to the best advantage possible. If you can find out the flow numbers of what ever head your going to run, this will help in camshaft selection.
I’m sure your future heads will be stock minus the outlined work of flash and bump clean up with a nice valve job, but the head flow numbers would help. Knowing where the flow of the head tops out will allow you to at least look for and choose a cam that lifts the valve up enough to take advantage of the capability of the head.
I myself like to take advantage of this to a degree based on what the duties of the engine will be. For a simple hop up, if the head flows good until .500, I’ll try for a lift that gets there but it not need be at .500 or go beyond it.
For a mild street strip, as close as possible, on a race car, the lift will be (or at least try) as high and higher than the max flow rate lift point.
All in all, the 318 will respond very well with the same ideas for any other engine. Have fun and the best of wishes to you.
302 vs other 273/318 heads is a point of argument. Chrysler MP said the 302 is the go to head and while it was available new at the time made it the best bet when starting from scratch. That’s against using an older head possibly needing more work. How each of these heads ports out, I don’t know.
Then of course, there’s a step up to a 340/360 head. Which can be a draw back with its larger runners and chambers. How this larger head can be better is more leaning to a race engine rather than the grocery getter. And so on up the ladder we go.
I don’t think the 302 head is garbage but more misunderstood and mis used with improper execution expectations and lack of experience.
As cast, all the 273/318 heads flow in the same area. Some will sight flow differences even though the same differences can be found in the same casting of the same head and yes, even the same year. The bottom line on cylinder head use for a mild hop up is just to simply use what you have to the best advantage possible. If you can find out the flow numbers of what ever head your going to run, this will help in camshaft selection.
I’m sure your future heads will be stock minus the outlined work of flash and bump clean up with a nice valve job, but the head flow numbers would help. Knowing where the flow of the head tops out will allow you to at least look for and choose a cam that lifts the valve up enough to take advantage of the capability of the head.
I myself like to take advantage of this to a degree based on what the duties of the engine will be. For a simple hop up, if the head flows good until .500, I’ll try for a lift that gets there but it not need be at .500 or go beyond it.
For a mild street strip, as close as possible, on a race car, the lift will be (or at least try) as high and higher than the max flow rate lift point.
All in all, the 318 will respond very well with the same ideas for any other engine. Have fun and the best of wishes to you.
VolareDon, notice the thread is titled " Best flowing sbm heads ". A person asking such a question is probably not building a very mild 318 that will never be raced. Why would you expect a 302 casting head to even enter the conversation ? Of course the 302 head is fine in certain situations like yours. I can relate to working with a small budget. My own 318 still has stock heads. But it's not really relevant in a thread where the OP is looking for big power.
Just what we need, is a Chinese copy of an American auto maker performance head. 
cookietruck
Well-Known Member
And maybe speedmaster could cast them without all the porosity issues the W5 are notorious for…Not sure youve noticed but no one has cast a W5 in nearly 30 years and nothing else fills that niche at that price point.
That would be the hope. Their standard head castings are rumored to be better than edelbrocks.
i never much about the new Bloomer 200 cc heads with the 2.08 intake valve , i would think they would be right up there with any aftermarket stock type head . there is probably not much info on them since i don't think there are very many sets made yet . i heard rumors of 600 plus with a 250 @50 and 550 lift , don't know for sure if true .
That current chink head, if you move the pushrod hole over yourself, you can port that chink head out to a level close to a W5 head.
My W5’s gave up the ghost on a thin spot and flowed 312 cfm on a 4.125 bore. Some of the top results I have seen have been in the 335/340 area.
The chink head without the pushrod moved have been know to go to 300 cfm. I don’t think you’ll find another 30/40 cfm, but I’m sure you’ll find something!
The W5 was great on paper, poor on execution that wasn’t Chryslers fault but the fault of the casting company in the use of poor aluminum and casting. Chrysler attempted to fix the problem but the damage was already done with the reputation the W5 had earned. The cost of attempting a 3rd fix was deemed too expensive since it would also require a massive add campaign explaining and proving the better castings would be worth the expense. The difficulty of re earning the trust back was considered on top of everything else was thought to be to much.
The cancelled the W5 & marched on with the W7, 8 & 9 series head. Also, being the W2 had a rock solid reputation, the only draw back was its iron and heavy. So they kept the W2 & went on with the 7,8,9 series head.
I always hoped the W5 would come back again. The head still sits in the replacement head category since it really doesn’t take exotic or race only parts for use.
IMO, with the bad rap and huge expense to right the wrong along with the lack of trust due to the crap head production techniques, the introduction of the Edelbrock head sealed the W5’s fate.
The Edelbrock can go 300 cfm. Pittsburghracer produces excellent results with those and the chink heads. Few people fully exploit the heads full potential.
Being done now on most current offerings.Just what we need, is a Chinese copy of an American auto maker performance head.
Oh - sarcasm, I missed it!
B3422w5
Well-Known Member
A member on here has been fast enough with them to say they make around 650 horsepower.
not heard anything about the 600 horse 250@50 550 lift story. I seriously doubt the validity of that
i also thought that was a small cam for those numbers maybe 550 - 560 .
B3422w5
Well-Known Member
I think mine will make that (550-560)with soon to be suitable headers on it, little more duration than 250, but only 565 gross lift, flat tappet We will see.
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600 hp with a cam of 250@050 & .550 lift?
If the lift part was left out I’d say it sounds like the w2 Holley Pro dominator rotted to the Victor heads on the 11.99-1 378 cid engine.
That was 255@050 and I can’t remember the monster lift but IIRC, north of .700.
If the lift part was left out I’d say it sounds like the w2 Holley Pro dominator rotted to the Victor heads on the 11.99-1 378 cid engine.
That was 255@050 and I can’t remember the monster lift but IIRC, north of .700.
B3422w5
Well-Known Member
Except that motor in differing conditions made 739 and 770+, lots more than 600
I bought my Ritter block from Bloomer and he showed me his heads. He had 5 sets sitting there. I had a set of TF 190's at home and the Boomer heads will far outflow the TF heads. They were nice.
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(Rapidly)
Yea yea yea yea yea yea……
(Grandioso!)
OMG! Beat it into everyone’s head why don’t ya?!?!
(Rapidly)
Yea yea yea yea yea yea….
(With cheer)
LOL! Hell of a street engine.
B3422w5
Well-Known Member
beat it into everyone’s head?
what is that supposed to mean?
isn’t my motor, I just happen to know a good bit about the build
My goal would be a 600+ hp 4" stroker based engine that I can take to the strip occasionally and mostly be obnoxious with around town.
I figure in round numbers I probably need upwards of 310-320 CFM to get to those power levels on a fairly optimized tune and combo. Just from the research I've done. Some guys here have actually done it and I'm appreciative of their knowledge and advice.
I figure in round numbers I probably need upwards of 310-320 CFM to get to those power levels on a fairly optimized tune and combo. Just from the research I've done. Some guys here have actually done it and I'm appreciative of their knowledge and advice.
That is exactly what I am building. A 440. 4" stroke 4.185 bore. running victor heads, putting a built A-500 behind it this spring but adding a built 8hp70 down the road. maybe nos and hoping to add a Torque Storm down the road. Throwing it in my 67 Cuda street car. Should be competent enough.
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