Holley 500 CFM 2 Barrel #0-4412S on a Slant 6

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Mopar King

Mopar King

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Hello, I have a few questions on The Holley 500 CFM 2 Barrel Carburetor Part #0-4412S. I was wondering will this bolt on to a Super Six Manifold If I buy the Mr.Gasket Aluminum Adapter part #1937 the same as the Holley 350CFM adapter ?


on the Holley Website Link do I need the other Parts they have in their description? do you think that it is OK to run this setup on a Stock Exhaust manifold? just for a While until I get headers

http://www.holley.com/0-4412S.asp



I was reading on a old thread: http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=94686

I was wondering two things from the thread: 1. 66aCUDA said that you needed the Mopar Linkage setup, Does he mean the Super six Kick-down Setup or some other linkage setup? and 2. "The barrels on the 500 are a little too large to get a good signal for low speed operation" does that mean the car sputters and wants to shut off on low speeds like a steady 5 to 20 MPH?


thanks guys.
 
Mopar King said:
Hello, I have a few questions on The Holley 500 CFM 2 Barrel Carburetor Part #0-4412S. I was wondering will this bolt on to a Super Six Manifold If I buy the Mr.Gasket Aluminum Adapter part #1937 the same as the Holley 350CFM adapter ?
YES


on the Holley Website Link do I need the other Parts they have in their description? do you think that it is OK to run this setup on a Stock Exhaust manifold? just for a While until I get headers

http://www.holley.com/0-4412S.asp
Its fine with or without headers. Run 2 1/4 exhaust.



I was reading on a old thread: http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=94686

I was wondering two things from the thread: 1. 66aCUDA said that you needed the Mopar Linkage setup, Does he mean the Super six Kick-down Setup or some other linkage setup? and 2. "The barrels on the 500 are a little too large to get a good signal for low speed operation" does that mean the car sputters and wants to shut off on low speeds like a steady 5 to 20 MPH?


thanks guys.
Click to expand...
With the 500CFM Holley I would use a cable set up like a Lokar or Buschlon(sp).
Frank
 
The Holley is available with GM Ford or Mopar linkage setup on it. Instead of creating a Frankenstein setup I was recommending a Mopar style st-up.
Frank
 
Mopar King said:
Hello, I have a few questions on The Holley 500 CFM 2 Barrel Carburetor Part #0-4412S. I was wondering will this bolt on to a Super Six Manifold If I buy the Mr.Gasket Aluminum Adapter part #1937 the same as the Holley 350CFM adapter ?
Click to expand...

Yes.


Mopar King said:
on the Holley Website Link do I need the other Parts they have in their description? do you think that it is OK to run this setup on a Stock Exhaust manifold? just for a While until I get headers
Click to expand...

It will be fine with an exhaust manifold. I would follow Frank's recommendation on the cable.



http://www.holley.com/0-4412S.asp



I was reading on a old thread: http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=94686

Mopar King said:
I was wondering two things from the thread: 1. 66aCUDA said that you needed the Mopar Linkage setup, Does he mean the Super six Kick-down Setup or some other linkage setup? and 2. "The barrels on the 500 are a little too large to get a good signal for low speed operation" does that mean the car sputters and wants to shut off on low speeds like a steady 5 to 20 MPH?


thanks guys.
Click to expand...

66aCUDA.....that's Frank. he's one of our slant gurus around here. If he says run a cable. Guess what? Run a cable. lol only other thing I would suggest is that 500 may be a tad rich. You might need to make some jet changes to get it just right but they are good carburetors.
 
Great carb- fun to work on and make good power. They are a tad soft on the bottom, which is where the 50cc accelerator pump comes in handy. It has such a big pump shot if you need it. TBH I'd go with the 350cfm unless it was a race car -had the 500cfm/Xcelerator on my 273 and it killed low end torque(duh...)
 
alright thanks guys, you wouldn't happen to know the part # for the lokar cable Set up? I try to check them on summit but there are a couple of cable linkage set up. also what Number jet do i need to get it to run perfect? is it easy changing jets on any carb?


is the lokar cable a replacement for the 2 barrel kickdown linkage?

I don't need anything else other than this?

Holley 500cfm carb #0-4412S
Mr. Gasket Adapter #1937
Lokar mopar cable Set-up part # ?



.
 
If you read the Holley book on carbs, they emphasize the biggest mistake is too big a carb. For the low-end, a 4-barrel of the same cfm rating is much better than a 2-barrel, especially if small primaries (ex. spread-bore). They also promote vacuum secondaries (i.e. Holley instead of Carter AFB/Edelbrock), so the secondaries open as needed not when an inexperienced driver floors it.

However, you must fit something to your 2-barrel intake. There are 4 to 2 adapters, if you have the height. I have always heard a 350 cfm 4-barrel is perfect for a 6-cylinder (avail, but rare). 500 cfm sounds too much, especially in a 2-barrel, unless you have a turbo or such. Consider the 2-barrel Carter type which came on my '65 273 and most 318's. I bought a new one for $25 recently. Don't know the cfm rating, but certainly much less than 500 cfm.
 
65terrorcuda is it the KD-2904HT Kickdown Kit or both the kickdown and throttle cable? for the 500cfm? no super six kickdown needed ? I am putting these on my wish list in summit as we speak so I won't forget.
 
The super six you might want a longer throttle cable(not sure on that one), but the throttle and kickdown cables are separate kits. The real pisser on the setup is the bracket for the cables- it is gimp. It works, but it only attaches to one carb stud. The cables will work with your 350/500 2bbl. The really trick thing to do is use the lokar throttle cable hardware on the carb end but keep your mopar throttle cable. Lokar makes a gorgeous aluminum cable bracket but it's for the AFB.

I'm assuming you have a 904 and want the cable kickdown, correct?
 
That's a cool 2.2. ....I don't know. I've always preferred my carburetors a little big than a little small. I think carburetor companies tell people a little small is better because they figure most DYIers caint tune a carb, so small would mean less carburetor returns. I've always found there's more room to tune going down than going up. I mean all a 650 will flow is 650. But you can easily tune one down by leaning the jets and drilling out the air bleeds.
 
StrokerScamp said:
His "calculations" are dead wrong. 500 CFM is 500 CFM. Math does not lie. It's all in how that CFM is delivered that makes the four barrel different.
Click to expand...


"500 cfm is 500 cfm" IF measured at the same vacuum.

I seem to remember that Holley uses a different amount of vacuum on their flow bench when they test 2-barrells as opposed to 4-barrel carbs.

I don't have the numbers, offhand, and it seems to be a self-defeating thing for Holley to do, but years ago, I ran across that information. It was valid then; I doubt if Holley has changed their M.O. in the meantime...

I'll try to get some more definitive information, tomorrow, but for now, I don't think that a 500 cfm 2 bbl Holley carb will flow as much air as a 500 cfm Holley 4-Barrel, because of the different vacuum values used by Holley to rate them.

Could be wrong... been wrong before!!!!:pale:

Oh... check this out.

Look at page 77 on http://tinyurl.com/4n8bfdz

Scroll down using the "ghost" arrow on the left, for an explanation (COMPARING CARBURETOR FLOW CAPACITY) that states, basically, that 1- and 2-bbl Holley carbs are rated at 3 hg. vacuum, while 4bbl carbs are only rated at 1.5 Hg vacuum; apples and oranges. Sounds to me like there's no direct comparison.
There's an example there that shows that a 500 cfm Holley 2bbl equals the flow of a 344 cfm Holley 4 bbl...

What do you think?
 
I know what you're talkin about....but the difference won't be that drastic. Carter also used a similarly different method for measuring air flow for their carburetors than Holley. So....that means Holley used at least two different methods of measuring air flow. Honestly, the only way to determine what is what is to buy your own carburetor flow meters and measure and adjust them yourself. I used to have one years ago when I had a Triumph Spitfire with 2 SU carburetors on it. Almost a necessity with those and it certainly doesn't hurt in other applications.
 
StrokerScamp said:
I know what you're talkin about....but the difference won't be that drastic. Carter also used a similarly different method for measuring air flow for their carburetors than Holley. So....that means Holley used at least two different methods of measuring air flow. Honestly, the only way to determine what is what is to buy your own carburetor flow meters and measure and adjust them yourself. I used to have one years ago when I had a Triumph Spitfire with 2 SU carburetors on it. Almost a necessity with those and it certainly doesn't hurt in other applications.
Click to expand...


"but the difference won't be that drastic."

354 / 500??? Sounds pretty drastic to me (41 percent???)
 

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I been :pale::puke:very under the weather:pale: lately but getting prepared for summer never the less. this Setup is for my 74 Plymouth Scamp that I am working on Slowly at the moment. It is still a 1 barrel carb but have a 2 BBL Manifold and Kickdown coming soon.

65terrorcuda: I think it has the 904 transmission but unsure and yes I do want the Cable Kick-down set up which Frank said its better. .

How about this part, do I need it as well. http://www.holley.com/20-91.asp







So here is what I learn so far thats needed to make this set up work:

Lokar KD-2904HT Kick down Kit: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LOK-KD-2904HT/
Lokar TC-1000U Throttle Cable: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LOK-TC-1000U/
Mr. Gasket 2 barrel Adapter #1937 : http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MRG-1937/
Holley Throttle Lever Extension #20-7 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-20-7/
Holley 500 CFM 2 Barrel Carb



 
Bill Dedman said:
"but the difference won't be that drastic."

354 / 500??? Sounds pretty drastic to me (41 percent???)
Click to expand...

It all depends on what you wanna call gospel. I don't believe everything I read....and I have DONE the swap from a 500 Holley 2 barrel to a 500 4 barrel.
 
65TerrorCuda said:
From another forum:
"By my calculations, a 500cfm 2bbl would equal a 353.55cfm 4bbl."
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25485

I'd like to change my answer to the 500 lol
Unless you're putting this in a tractor
Click to expand...

Great info 65TerrorCuda and Bill Dedman. I stand corrected. Wondered what the cfm ratings really meant. Sounds squishy. Next question will be what conditions are 1-barrel Holley's tested under, especially since the OP has a Slant Six.

Finally, my Newport has a Holley Pro-jection "2-barrel" rated "670 cfm". Is is that comparable to a 670 cfm 4-barrel carb. It actually requires a 4-barrel manifold, just has 2 injectors in the throttle body.
 
Bill Dedman said:
So, what was the outcome?
Click to expand...

As thought, the four barrel (AFB) was more responsive but didn't really add any power. While it did have more punch on the bottom end because of the smaller primaries, it was still just as limited on the top end. It was on a 318 in a Duster. A four barrel will always be more volumetrically efficient....but comparing apples to apples the power will be about the same. The power curve is what changes.
 
StrokerScamp said:
As thought, the four barrel (AFB) was more responsive but didn't really add any power. While it did have more punch on the bottom end because of the smaller primaries, it was still just as limited on the top end. It was on a 318 in a Duster. A four barrel will always be more volumetrically efficient....but comparing apples to apples the power will be about the same. The power curve is what changes.
Click to expand...

That's interesting, and it would seem to tell us that at full throttle, even with what is effectively, a smalller carb (when rated at the parameters that Holley applies to 2bbs vs. 4 bbls) it still has sufficient flow to make as much power as the rest of the engine can support. The better torque, at lower rpms, exhibited by the 4-barrel carb, is evidence of better fuel atomization and distribution, even though the carb has superior total flow capability.
 
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