Holley Retrobright Price Match
- Thread starter Car Nut
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Those look like the ones my brother has in his SS454 Chevelle, they work well.
mopowers
Well-Known Member
Maybe @slantsixdan can share what he thinks of these headlights.
slantsixdan
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These LED headlamps sold by Holley are sourced through an intermediary company out of China, and promoted along the lines of modern performance with vintage looks. I had high hopes for them, but they turned out as a complete let-down. If you drive your car at night at all, you're wise to steer clear, no matter what price you might find them at. There are legitimate (effective, safe, legal) LED headlamps to fit any sealed-beam car, but the RetroBrights are not on that list.
scatpackbee
Well-Known Member
Which LED headlights lwould you recommend for a ‘69 Dart Dan?
slantsixdan
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First make sure you're asking the question you mean to ask. LED headlamps aren't necessarily good headlamps, and good headlamps aren't necessarily LED headlamps. There are some excellent halogens available, and some hyperpremium (and hyper-expensive) BiXenons.
If you want LEDs, be careful; there's a mountain of fraudulent/unsafe junk on the market, including all "LED bulbs" that fit in halogen headlamps (see here) and a whole lot of toys shaped like whole sealed beam headlamps. But there are some good-to-excellent ones on the market, too. the Peterson 701C is pretty good, and so is the Truck-Lite 27270C. By a big, big margin the king daddy of them all is the JW Speaker 8700, which comes in black or chrome. All three of these are well made in America. There's a lot of lookalike copycat junk "recommended" when you look at these; ignore them. Super-shіtty junk from NAPA, too; avoid it.
Whatever headlamps you wind up using, the most important thing about them is how they're aimed.
If you want LEDs, be careful; there's a mountain of fraudulent/unsafe junk on the market, including all "LED bulbs" that fit in halogen headlamps (see here) and a whole lot of toys shaped like whole sealed beam headlamps. But there are some good-to-excellent ones on the market, too. the Peterson 701C is pretty good, and so is the Truck-Lite 27270C. By a big, big margin the king daddy of them all is the JW Speaker 8700, which comes in black or chrome. All three of these are well made in America. There's a lot of lookalike copycat junk "recommended" when you look at these; ignore them. Super-shіtty junk from NAPA, too; avoid it.
Whatever headlamps you wind up using, the most important thing about them is how they're aimed.
slantsixdan
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That's exactly what I'm talking about: a pathetic Chinese trinket shaped like an H4 halogen headlamp, with a not-even-close-to-grownup-reality "LED bulb". These give a random spray of light; not capable of providing even minimally adequate safety performance.
People swear by them? Yep, that's a completely different question than whether they're effective and safe (they're not). The difficulty is, what we feel like we're seeing isn't what we're actually seeing. The human visual system is a lousy judge of how well it's doing. "I know what I can see!" seems reasonable, but it doesn't square up with reality because we humans are just not well equipped to accurately evaluate how well or poorly we can see (or how well a headlamp works). Our subjective impressions tend to be very far out of line with objective, real measurements of how well we can (or can't) see.
Seriously, you are far better off with a 20-year-old pair of sealed beams than with this junk. Do not buy.
autoxcuda
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Which ones of those look as stock-like or more stock-lite than the Holley Retrofit's?
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The original 4001’s and 4002’s on my Charger are working fine.
I’m sharp on some things and completely ignorant on others.
I’m following @slantsixdan ’s recommendation.
Thanks Dan, I’m glad your here.
I’m following @slantsixdan ’s recommendation.
Thanks Dan, I’m glad your here.
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slantsixdan
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None. The Truck-Lite and Peterson don't look as space-shippy as the JW Speaker, but there is no effective or safe LED headlamp that looks like an olde-tyme sealed beam or H4. Which kind of sucks, but on the other hand…seems to me if it needs to look damn near showroom-stock, it's probably not being driven much at night.
And on the other-other hand, if what's needed is better-than-OE headlamps with close-to-original appearance, that can certainly be done. Just not with LEDs.
Map63Vette
Well-Known Member
Is this still the case or did they change something? Looking at their website at least they seem to be pretty up front about it and say they are made by Morimoto and meet DOT requirements. I know plenty of knock off places claim DOT compliance as well, but I give Holley at least a tiny bit more confidence they actually mean it. That doesn't mean that DOT regulations make a good headlight in many regards though, just a "legal" one, so maybe that's the bigger problem.
slantsixdan
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Yes.
No.
Morimoto is not a company, it is a brand belonging to TheRetrofitSource, a longtime US-based seller of (almost nothing but) unsafe/illegal lighting trinkets. They farm their production out to various job shops in China.
Nope. This is an out-and-out lie.
Why? You shouldn't. The only thing they have to do with this product is their name on the box.
Correct—there are lousy DOT-certified headlamps, and there are very good ones, and a lot in between. And there are very good non-DOT-certified headlamps, too. None of that applies to the Retrobright things, which are fraudulently DOT-certified, lousy headlite-shaped trinkets.
This is a lot more than just a divergence from some picky little requirement in a lawbook.
Map63Vette
Well-Known Member
So what exactly are the ramifications of using a non-DOT compliant headlight? On the one hand it feels like someone would go after the driver of the vehicle and say "hey, your lights aren't DOT compliant, so it's your fault and you owe me something" in the event of some kind of accident. But if the person with the non-DOT headlights bought them under the assumption that they actually were DOT compliant (and marketed as such), wouldn't this transfer the legal burden to the seller/manufacturer of the headlight? I would have thought Holley wouldn't be quite that stupid, but I guess the market of people buying these for classic cars is probably pretty small and they are just assuming that they aren't going to drive enough miles for that to happen enough times to be a problem? That's the only reason I give Holley any more credit than the alphabet soup brands on Amazon that you wouldn't be able to find tomorrow if you wanted to sue them anyway.
slantsixdan
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If you get in a crash or hit a pedestrian (etc), and your vehicle is found to have equipment that doesn't meet whatever your state's requirements are, that can go very badly for you in court, or at least with your insurance company—even if your non-spec lights (or whatever) didn't actually cause or aggravate the crash. State requirements for headlamps vary from almost nonexistent (two low beams; two or four high beams, white light, producing low and high beam) to very specific (shall meet Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 108).
Honestly, I'd worry more about the ramifications (bent metal, injured or dead people) of using bad headlamps, no matter what is or isn't marked on the lens or otherwise claimed about compliance.
Not automatically, no, though if you found yourself in deep legal doo-doo, you could get them tested by a relevant lab and bring the resultant evidence of noncompliance to court in hopes of getting off easier, then go sue [in this case Holley] for fraud and file a complaint with NHTSA, the US agency in charge of vehicle safety standards, who would probably spend their usual multiple years thinking about considering whether to ponder maybe discussing some ideas about looking into it.
They're not the only example of a formerly-reputable company turned into nothing but a brand chasing the dollars where they're easiest and giving a wink and a chuckle to applicable regulations. This is what happens when enforcement is lax, delayed, and unlikely.
NoCar340
The Original Partstitute
I'm guessing you've never called their tech line.
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@slantsixdan is more passionate about lighting than most of us are about Mopars. It's his consuming passion and life's work. His recommendations are spot-on, so if you really want to upgrade I'd suggest contacting him. He's very helpful and friendly, and there's never pressure to buy from him. His attitude seems to be "I am going help this person. If they happen buy something, bonus." In fact, he recommended I try a relay upgrade with halogen sealed-beams first, before committing to the Koitos I bought from him for both my Challenger and Valiant. His expertise and assistance is well worth the expense.
Map63Vette
Well-Known Member
I'm guessing you've never called their tech line.
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@slantsixdan is more passionate about lighting than most of us are about Mopars. It's his consuming passion and life's work. His recommendations are spot-on, so if you really want to upgrade I'd suggest contacting him. He's very helpful and friendly, and there's never pressure to buy from him. His attitude seems to be "I am going help this person. If they happen buy something, bonus." In fact, he recommended I try a relay upgrade with halogen sealed-beams first, before committing to the Koitos I bought from him for both my Challenger and Valiant. His expertise and assistance is well worth the expense.
Lol, fair enough. And I definitely can see Dan's knowledge on stuff. A lot of my questions are largely just curiosity and for my own learning and knowledge. I've built my own wiring harness for my car from scratch using a scrap harness I got at my previous job because I wanted good modern wiring with quality insulation and fresh terminals on all the connections. That alone fixes a lot of dim lights and flaky operation. I added several fuses and relays along the way as well for higher current loads like headlights. The only harness in the car that is still original at this point is the one that goes back to the tail lights of all things. I just didn't have long enough cables to make that run with my new wire, and I didn't want to splice things together to get there, so I left it for the time being.
I actually had the opportunity to read some FMVSS 108 / DOT testing reports on headlights as well when I was at my previous job and we were looking at replacing the current LED headlights we were running with a lower cost option, so I'm a bit familiar with what the report actually looks like and what they test for. I've seen my fair share of YouTube "lights aimed at a wall" videos to know and understand that that doesn't tell the full story when it comes to how lights are tested at a certification level. I think the thing that's harder for me to remember is that the US standards aren't necessarily great as I don't believe they have been changed for a very long time. I've seen "first world" brands that offer LED headlights now like Sylvania and Philips, which you would kind of hope actually make quality products (and actually make them themselves, not a rebrand). I would hope these guys are actually making stuff that really does meet the DOT/FMVSS criteria, but sounds like maybe they just don't perform that well. So in my head it's just weird to hear "this premium brand stuff is junk while this brand I've never heard of makes really nice stuff". I definitely trust him given his wealth of knowledge on the subject. I'm just an engineer so I like to see numbers and data as opposed to "these and good" and "these are junk". I like seeing what makes them good or bad.
NoCar340
The Original Partstitute
Unfortunately, it's mostly bandwagon-jumping to not miss out on a huge, if oft-misguided trend. It's all about the shareholders and quarterlies these days, and unfortunately quality is left behind in favor of profit margins. The greater the brand recognition, the greater the demand to perform on the NYSE.
I always appreciate Dan and his input regarding this topic.
Bright doesn't equate to good when it comes to headlights. Think about it like a flashlight that you can focus the beam. A lower wattage focused beam/light can be much more effective than a bright one that scatters light everywhere.
Personally, I prefer the old school/halogen look with a relay kit. Good light and efficient. Pick your parts, pay your money
Bright doesn't equate to good when it comes to headlights. Think about it like a flashlight that you can focus the beam. A lower wattage focused beam/light can be much more effective than a bright one that scatters light everywhere.
Personally, I prefer the old school/halogen look with a relay kit. Good light and efficient. Pick your parts, pay your money
Map63Vette
Well-Known Member
Yeah, light is a really weird thing and can be measured in a bunch of different ways, so makes it even more confusing. Lumens, candela, candlepower, watts, etc. They are all important, but can't really be compared against each other all that well.
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