How does cid make power?

[Cheapsunglasses]

The difference between stroking the 318 vs the 340 vs the 360 is only bore size. The bigger bore has more potential to make more HP. Because of the smaller bore size of the 360 and smaller yet 318, the 340 block has the best HP and torque production ability. Just the reverse for less power.

@Cheapsunglasses

Cost aside and we will pretend all parts are not only free but on a shelf that your standing in front of.

We have a 350, 361, 383 & a 400 inch low deck set of blocks. Build each one how ever you want it but all the blocks will use the same parts from stroked block to stroked block. Which one is making the best HP and Tq.?

You answered my question greatly thank you, but I think I left out part of my question that’s the most important. Most of the time when people are building an engine, it usually needs bored do to normal wear. Or sometimes it needs bored for the stroker kit. So if we’re boring the engine and changing the stroke on a small block, I’ll just stick to small blocks because they have the same deck hight. Does it matter what you start with? I think is the real question this thread is about.

 

[rumblefish360]

Yes and that's where I got this info from and keep asking where's the hp
Episode 18 right?


410 - 362.5 hp under the curve avg, 1.05hp/1.17lbs-ft per cid, +2% peak hp
360 - 361.2 hp under the curve avg, 1.18hp/1.23lbs-ft per cid

410 - 3000=250 3500=310 4000=365 4500=399 5000=420 5500=431hp
360 - 3300=252 3800=315 4300=360 4800=399 5300=418 5800=423hp

You can’t see the HP gain in the video?

OK, where done.

Your ether doing this to have fun or your off your meds.
Have a good day! Bye!

 

[rumblefish360]

You answered my question greatly thank you, but I think I left out part of my question that’s the most important. Most of the time when people are building an engine, it usually needs bored do to normal wear. Or sometimes it needs bored for the stroke. So if we’re boring the engine and changing the stroke on a small block, I’ll just stick to small blocks because they have the same deck hight. Does it matter what you start with? I think is the real question this thread is about.

Overall, unless your racing for the money, “Heads up Racing.” I don’t see an issue with using any of the 3 small blocks. IF you yourself want the maximum return on the build, then use the largest bore possible.

That’s what I’d tell you or anybody if they were going this route.

All the small blocks are reasonably suited within reason of making some really good power all within a reasonably close amount. Since they all have a 4 inch stroke, I he bore size becomes the limiting factor in power production. We will just have the same equipment on top and within as the leveling factors to keep things even.

 

[Cheapsunglasses]

Overall, unless your racing for the money, “Heads up Racing.” I don’t see an issue with using any of the 3 small blocks. IF you yourself want the maximum return on the build, then use the largest bore possible.

That’s what I’d tell you or anybody if they were going this route.

All the small blocks are reasonably suited within reason of making some really good power all within a reasonably close amount. Since they all have a 4 inch stroke, I he bore size becomes the limiting factor in power production. We will just have the same equipment on top and within as the leveling factors to keep things even.

Thanks! I think we’ve finally gotten to the end of this discussion, and we can close this thread

 

[273]

You can’t see the HP gain in the video?

OK, where done.

Your ether doing this to have fun or your off your meds.
Have a good day! Bye!

Why would you compare two engines with different powerbands aka useable rpm range like you would use in a drag race, use a more exaggerated eg. Your engines powerband is 3000-6000 rpm mine is 6000-9000 rpm but making same hp why would you compare each only from 3000-6000 rpm. Obviously each engine will be geared and stall to work in there powerbands.

Same with the 300 rpm difference between the 410 & 360. If you don't your giving an artificial bump in hp that's not gonna happen in properly setup cars.

 

[rumblefish360]

 

[Rat Bastid]

The engine masters video of the 360 vs the 408 clearly showed the stroker making more power in torque and HP.
They used all the same parts except the crank and pistons which make up the CID.

Can you post a link to that one. It’s a PITA to find the exact episode.

TIA


EDIT: you can just give me the episode number. That’s easier than a link.

 

[Rat Bastid]

@Cheapsunglasses

Cost aside and we will pretend all parts are not only free but on a shelf that your standing in front of.

We have a 350, 361, 383 & a 400 inch low deck set of blocks. Build each one how ever you want it but all the blocks will use the same parts from stroked block to stroked block. Which one is making the best HP and Tq.?

The biggest bore.

 

[273]

So you would if looking for max et, gear, stall shift cross finish line at same rpm for both ?

 

[273]

Can you post a link to that one. It’s a PITA to find the exact episode.

TIA


EDIT: you can just give me the episode number. That’s easier than a link.

Itls on motortrend+ episode 18

Did a screenshot of the dyno 360 is high lighted

410 - 362.5 hp under the curve avg, 1.05hp/1.17lbs-ft per cid, +2% peak hp
360 - 361.2 hp under the curve avg, 1.18hp/1.23lbs-ft per cid

410 - 3000=250 3500=310 4000=365 4500=399 5000=420 5500=431hp
360 - 3300=252 3800=315 4300=360 4800=399 5300=418 5800=423hp

 

[rumblefish360]

So you would if looking for max et, gear, stall shift cross finish line at same rpm for both ?

 

[273]

 

[273]

racing dyno's

racing cars

 

[rumblefish360]

Can you post a link to that one. It’s a PITA to find the exact episode.

TIA


EDIT: you can just give me the episode number. That’s easier than a link.

Sorry RB. You’ll have to sign up, *I Think* it’s free.
IIRC, it’s cheap on the TV on there own “Motortrend on Demand” channel. EZ subscription. Cancel anytime.

Season 1, ep. 18. This is the only place I could find it.
https://www.motortrendondemand.com/show/engine-masters/645/
It’s not on YouTube.

 

[rumblefish360]

racing dyno's
View attachment 1715977004

racing cars
View attachment 1715977005

 

[92b]

racing dyno's
View attachment 1715977004

racing cars
View attachment 1715977005

Multply torque by the gear ratio and assume the tires are the same size. Then plot it out as another way to compare the 2 motors. That's how we do it at the dyno when comparing crate and open motors for circle track. Doesn't give a complete answer as to which is better but is another way to look at the data.

 

[273]

If you only looking at dyno results yes your right 410 makes more torque and hp from 3000-6000 rpm at same rpm points. But I usually factor in the whole drivetrain
Probably why i feel we're talking two different languages, along with everyone else.

 

[rumblefish360]

If you only looking at dyno results yes your right 410 makes more torque and hp from 3000-6000 rpm at same rpm points. But I usually factor in the whole drivetrain
Probably why i feel we're talking two different languages, along with everyone else.

 

[rumblefish360]

If you only looking at dyno results yes your right 410 makes more torque and hp from 3000-6000 rpm at same rpm points. But I usually factor in the whole drivetrain
Probably why i feel we're talking two different languages, along with everyone else.

Actually, no, your a idiot and/or a moron.
(Not name calling, just stating what I see as fact.)
Now you just admitted what you said wasn’t possible and argued for 7 pages. Also what you claimed your arguing against, then not what your asking about. You contradict yourself several times in the thread.

Now, after admitting your wrong, you bring in the drive train (which has no bearing on the original question or the several re-argument points and change of question) as an argument point. Is it against the stroker this time again?

YEP! OFF THE MEDS!

 

[273]

Multply torque by the gear ratio and assume the tires are the same size. Then plot it out as another way to compare the 2 motors. That's how we do it at the dyno when comparing crate and open motors for circle track. Doesn't give a complete answer as to wich is better but is another way to look at the data.

Good way to do it see what's actually going to the ground.

 

[Cheapsunglasses]

Now this is turning into the typical forum fun. The answer has been given. Now people must argue.

 

[273]

Now you just admitted what you said wasn’t possible and argued for 7 pages. Also what you claimed your arguing against, then not what your asking about.

Yes I admit if you to look at dyno result without factoring the driveline aka gearing aka and in real world application like a drag race and just compare the same rpm points for both engines tq/hp goes to the 410, yes you and everyone else's right in that narrow way to look at it, but why wouldn't you factor the driveline ? When you factor in the driveline it basically equalled out. And this is my thread didn't realize the guidelines you guys setup for how I should process the info.

This is my tag line "Torque is one Power Stroke, HP is all the Power Strokes added up over Time /// If your willing to gear it build it if not build a larger displacement, Or take solace in your compromises." Doesn't it look like I factor in gearing?

Plus This is why most of you over value torque numbers cause your not factoring gearing.

 

[Phreakish]

So does say two engine same bore different displacement with same or similar level of top end heads cam etc.. Does the larger displacement always come out on top when laying power curves on top of one another? And if does why how?
Cause if displacement wins every time what is stopping the smaller engine turning enough rpms to make up the difference?

Bigger still wins. I already explained it.
Air pump, more air equals more power. There are exceptions where the heads suck and won't make more power but it isn't because Cid isn't everything. It is.

More CID with the same more is more stroke, which means more air both taken in and more expanded. The longer stroke will make more torque AND hp as a result.

 

[Rat Bastid]

Bigger still wins. I already explained it.
Air pump, more air equals more power. There are exceptions where the heads suck and won't make more power but it isn't because Cid isn't everything. It is.

More CID with the same more is more stroke, which means more air both taken in and more expanded. The longer stroke will make more torque AND hp as a result.

This doesn’t explain why so many strokers are giant underachievers.

Look at the PONTIAC. Long stroke tractor engines. Ou can make 600 HP at 5500 but it wold get killed by 600 HP at 7000.

Edit: 7000 is NOTHING with today’s valve train components.

 

[rumblefish360]

Yes I admit if you to look at dyno result without factoring the driveline aka gearing aka and in real world application like a drag race and just compare the same rpm points for both engines tq/hp goes to the 410, yes you and everyone else's right in that narrow way to look at it, but why wouldn't you factor the driveline ?

Thanks for admitting you were doing this just to be a prick. You asked how, you were shown, but yet you kept moving the goal posts while adding in other factors.

The drive train question is a good and valid question to ponder and excellent for a question for its own thread.

Myself and others narrow view?

Why would you insult the entire board?

And this is my thread didn't realize the guidelines you guys setup for how I should process the info.

Trust me that no one gives a flying F that it’s your thread. It’s a public forum where anyone can say anything. Your thread or not. Stop crying.

" Doesn't it look like I factor in gearing?

This makes no sense.

Plus This is why most of you over value torque numbers cause your not factoring gearing.

This above is horse **** and loaded with assumptions.