How much did it cost to cost to swap in your hemi?

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One thing I keep forgetting about in the costing is a fuel system. And even a carb setup will need an electric fuel pump, so don't think that by going with a carb that bullet can be dodged.

My fuel setup is fairly cheap. I bought a new tank, a used late model GTO fuel tank and a C5 Camaro fuel pump module. A buddy and I cut the ring out of the metal GTO tank and recessed it into the top of the new A-Body tank. I had to extend the rods and wires to get the pump to the bottom of the tank and I lost some fuel capacity, but not sure I have $400 into the whole deal. And the C5 Camaro fuel module has a bucket that is filled by the pump so fuel slosh shouldn't be an issue and it has the FPR built in so I can use the existing steel line to the front and I don't have to run a return line. Add that the pump should have plenty of capacity and (I am sure) plenty of aftermarket support if I need more.


P5150536.JPG
 
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DionR said:
One thing I keep forgetting about in the costing is a fuel system. And even a carb setup will need an electric fuel pump, so don't think that by going with a carb that bullet can be dodged.

My fuel setup is fairly cheap. I bought a new tank, a used late model GTO fuel tank and a C5 Camaro fuel pump module. A buddy and I cut the ring out of the metal GTO tank and recessed it into the top of the new A-Body tank. I had to extend the rods and wires to get the pump to the bottom of the tank and I lost some fuel capacity, but not sure I have $400 into the whole deal. And the C5 Camaro fuel module has a bucket that is filled by the pump so fuel slosh shouldn't be an issue and it has the FPR built in so I can use the existing steel line to the front and I don't have to run a return line. Add that the pump should have plenty of capacity and (I am sure) plenty of aftermarket support if I need more.


View attachment 1716108677
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Why would you not just buy a Tanks Inc bolt in EFI tank??????? You spent about the same $$$
 
DionR said:
What about ignition on a carb setup?

I know the non-VVT motors can run an MSD setup that is like $700 for the box and $300 for the wiring harness, but not sure what options there are for the VVT motors.

Seems like (to me) if someone were to run a carb, doesn't make sense to run a VVT motor. Without the controls, you have to lock out the VVT anyways so might as well start with the simpler (and cheaper) '08 and older motor anyway. Add Eagle heads if you want a bump in flow, or maybe even start with a 6.1.
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I've done it. Run a VVT with the hemi 6 box. Even with 6.4 cam, it was a turd. Switched tone wheel on crank and used appropriate sensors.


One thing I should add about my earlier post and using a carb, I have carbs and fuel pumps around from previous builds and cars.
 
1WildRT said:
Why would you not just buy a Tanks Inc bolt in EFI tank??????? You spent about the same $$$
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Tanks Inc tank with pump and sending unit - $532.99

www.summitracing.com

1974 DODGE DART Tanks Inc. TCR11D-T-KIT Tanks Inc. EFI-Ready Fuel Tank Kits | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Tanks Inc. EFI-Ready Fuel Tank Kits with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Fuel Tanks at Summit Racing.
www.summitracing.com www.summitracing.com

Tanks Inc tank, non EFI - $171.99

www.summitracing.com

1974 DODGE DART Tanks Inc. TCR11E Tanks Inc. Fuel Tanks | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Tanks Inc. Fuel Tanks with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Fuel Tanks at Summit Racing.
www.summitracing.com www.summitracing.com

GM fuel pump for a 6.2, RockAuto - $121.79

More Information for GM GENUINE MU1959

www.rockauto.com

Total - $293.78

Leaves $239.21 to buy a metal GTO tank and get the welding done. And there were plenty of cheaper options for a stock tank so this isn't even the cheapest way to do it.

Full disclosure, I did this back in 2017 and was actually for the Magnum EFI I had planned to use. I wouldn't be surprised if the Tanks Inc EFI tank was just coming out or wasn't out at the time. I know the Stealth setup was out but pretty sure it was over $500 at the time.

And I don't like the Tank Inc "baffles". Much prefer the syphon setup of the GM bucket that keeps the bucket full at the same time it is supplying fuel to the engine. You could have a 1/4" of gas sloshing around the bottom of the tank but the GM fuel module bucket would be overflowing with fuel.

And if I was looking for another way to do it, I wouldn't do a Tanks Inc tank. I would use the Holley setup that fits into the stock tank mostly because of the HydroMat pickup. I've heard reports that it works well, but haven't done it myself.

Holley Sniper EFI 12-319 Holley EFI Fuel Tank Modules - 255 LPH - 1963-1976 Mopar A-Body

This in-tank fuel pump module is a high-pressure unit that flows 255 liters per hour (LPH) and is capable of supporting EFI (electronic fuel injection) engines producing up to 550 horsepower. Fuel pressure is internally regulated to 58 psi eliminating the added expense and effort of purchasing...
www.holley.com www.holley.com
 
408 swinger said:
I've done it. Run a VVT with the hemi 6 box. Even with 6.4 cam, it was a turd. Switched tone wheel on crank and used appropriate sensors.
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Hadn't thought about swapping the tone ring. Good info.

I really think the VVT motors as the factory builds them depend on the cam phasing to make them shine. Take that away and they don't work nearly as well. At that point, better to buy a cam that is designed to be locked and remove the VVT option. And at that point it really is just an '08 and older G3 with an Eagle head swap and a much more expensive cam.

At least I am pretty sure the VVT cam prices are much higher than the early motor cams. Certainly more expensive once you add in the $300 VVT lockout kit.
 
BTW, you can buy the ring in stainless or aluminum here. Saves having to track down a GTO tank to cut it out of.

And here is a kit from the same place. Permanently sold out though. Info only.

Here is an interesting animation of how the suction pump works.



Finally found the article I was looking for:

www.vaporworx.com

Fuel Modules - VaporWorx

www.vaporworx.com www.vaporworx.com
 
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208Dart said:
Good point! The list seems to always grow beyond what you think you'll need, I hadn't thought of ignition, just the savings over an EFI system like the Holley or MS setups. Further limits and exemplifies that a gen3 "budget friendly" swap is a bit of an oxymoron.


Mike @ HCA
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David Freiberger broke the cost down on an episode of engine masters. Just the engine part.
 
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68cuda408 said:
That being said ,the time for a detailed install with wiring mods and all was easily 100 hours finished to my taste. Its a tough decision if your farming out the labor, but don't forget to relay your "finished" expectations to the shop when getting your quote/estimate. Good luck
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i think you hit the mark on that number with an easy 100 hours. figure if you're starting from square one, you've got at least a day of teardown and a day of prep so there's 16hrs, on the back end you're looking at a day of tying up loose ends, tidying stuff and maybe another day of shakedown and double checking install (torque specs, wires rubbing, checking/fixing leaks) so there's another 16hrs and that combined is 30% of your time estimate.

but yeah, i wouldn't balk at a professional quoting out 100 hours and expect that number to go up depending on your finished expectations!
 
This was at least 100 hours from layout to run. I had went from FAST (408) to terminator x (hemi) back to FAST (Hemi). So even with experience , wanting a specific outcome wasn't free timewise (all labor was mine) it was about 100 hours each time.





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I have not completely given up on the hemi swap yet, but I have pushed the project to the side so I can finish others I have in front of it.
 
DionR said:
BTW, you can buy the ring in stainless or aluminum here. Saves having to track down a GTO tank to cut it out of.

And here is a kit from the same place. Permanently sold out though. Info only.

Here is an interesting animation of how the suction pump works.



Finally found the article I was looking for:

www.vaporworx.com

Fuel Modules - VaporWorx

www.vaporworx.com www.vaporworx.com
Click to expand...


Quick follow up on this. I was trying to update my cost spreadsheet and tripped over some info that could be important if anyone were to be using a similar fuel pump module.

The C5 Camaro uses PWM for fuel pressure control so what looks like a FPR on the bottom of the module is actually just a safety valve. If you plug in the module as is, it will max out the fuel pressure so you either have to run PWM controls or swap in an actual FPR with the following part to function correctly:

www.vaporworx.com

Fuel Pressure Regulator Adapter - Gen5/6 Fuel Module - VaporWorx

Convert the Gen5 Camaro SS fuel pump to 60psi! For use with Gen4 Camaro 4bar/58psi pressure regulators ONLY on Gen5/6 Camaro SS fuel modules. Also fits Gen6 Camaro and CTS-V3 (2015+) fuel modules.
www.vaporworx.com www.vaporworx.com

At least the part is only $15.

They also sell a PWM pump controller. Not certain this is the exact one you would need with a G3, but it's close.

www.vaporworx.com

PressureWorx ZL1/Universal PWM Fuel Module Controller - VaporWorx

Use this kit to add true returnless operation to a Gen5/6 Camaro SS, ZL1, or other single pump fuel module (C7, truck, Coyote, all FPDM Ford, etc.)
www.vaporworx.com www.vaporworx.com
 
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Wailin D said:
What intake are you using and what is the forward facing plenum for the throttle body?
Thank you
Click to expand...
https://sullivanperformance.com
https://www.prefix.com/performance
https://lightningforceperformance.com/lfp-big-mouth-single-blade-throttle-body-99-04-ford-f150-svt-lightning-and-02-03-harley
https://accufabracing.com

CASCAR (Canadian NASCAR) from Arrow/Prefix, a Sullivan performance 4150 flange to Ford SVT elbow and a Lightning Performance single blade Ford throttle body. The modular Ford crowd figured out how to stay under hood when converting to a 4150 flange intake. The oval to round tube I fabbed. I also use an Accufab Ford to GM/Chrysler conversion IAC housing that mounts under the elbow to the machined/ cast in Ford IAC mount
 
68cuda408 said:
https://sullivanperformance.com
https://www.prefix.com/performance
https://lightningforceperformance.com/lfp-big-mouth-single-blade-throttle-body-99-04-ford-f150-svt-lightning-and-02-03-harley
https://accufabracing.com

CASCAR (Canadian NASCAR) from Arrow/Prefix, a Sullivan performance 4150 flange to Ford SVT elbow and a Lightning Performance single blade Ford throttle body. The modular Ford crowd figured out how to stay under hood when converting to a 4150 flange intake. The oval to round tube I fabbed. I also use an Accufab Ford to GM/Chrysler conversion IAC housing that mounts under the elbow to the machined/ cast in Ford IAC mount
Click to expand...

Very cool!
 
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