Them X frames weren't the BEST idea, were they? LOL
They make for some good entertainment, though. LMAO
They make for some good entertainment, though. LMAO
How much difference will it make?
- Thread starter Clelan
- Start date
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MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
Remove the sway bar links, tie up the bar..or just remove it... use lighter torsion bars, taller tires.
The front suspension has to drop/move and fast....both those bars bind it. Aka it cannot rise and transfer to the rear tires like it should. Either make it a drag car... or make it a street track car.
As far as a rear sway bar with uneven SS springs. I would not use one. Our new car will have Calvert mono leafs and will have "roll control" same as sway bar. But in the past I had SS springs with a sway bar and could never get it to hook. Also when using the 002 003 springs put the car on a jack under the center in the rear when leveling the front torsion bars with stabilizer link removed. When you leave the rear down the car will lean. This is how our car worked the best.
You can see in the picture below the car had SS springs by the uneven shock length from the spring packs. Also the sway bar. It did not like this sway bar at all when the front was set as per the instructions with the springs that you don't get with the springs today.
Here is a video below also . The car has ss springs without the bar. The front is leveled while on a jack in the center of the rear so it leaned when set down. slant six bars and we put extensions on the upper control arm bump stops to reduce suspension travel to keep the wheels down. 90 -10 shocks The car was all steel , full interior and the spare and jack in the trunk. went low to mid 10's.
You can see in the picture below the car had SS springs by the uneven shock length from the spring packs. Also the sway bar. It did not like this sway bar at all when the front was set as per the instructions with the springs that you don't get with the springs today.
Here is a video below also . The car has ss springs without the bar. The front is leveled while on a jack in the center of the rear so it leaned when set down. slant six bars and we put extensions on the upper control arm bump stops to reduce suspension travel to keep the wheels down. 90 -10 shocks The car was all steel , full interior and the spare and jack in the trunk. went low to mid 10's.
Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
That’s adding spring rate. He doesn’t need that. And he has SS springs. That sway bar is killing any separation he has. That is exactly what a SS spring doesn’t want.
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
My guess would be the shocks are killing any separation he has.
I don't think it's making enough power for it not to hook, especially with drag radials and a sure grip. It's mid 13's? The car isn't working whatsoever. There is so much I don't like here.... The SS springs, sway bars, the tire pressure, etc.
33IMP
Well-Known Member
I haven't read the whole thread yet, so this may have been mentioned, but......
IMHO, step one: real slicks. Until you have the most QUALITY tire under the car , you won't know what else you need, or what works and what doesn't.
(And nittos drag tire reputation: garbage. If you must have drag radials, try M/T)
IMHO, step one: real slicks. Until you have the most QUALITY tire under the car , you won't know what else you need, or what works and what doesn't.
(And nittos drag tire reputation: garbage. If you must have drag radials, try M/T)
furrystump
Well-Known Member
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The next time you run the car have someone slo-mo video the launch with their phone. A guess, you are over-sprung at both ends for drag racing. Two schools of thought. Control the suspension with stiff springs or light springs and the shocks. Light springs and shocks are the way to go. The extra height in the rear that the ss springs gives you just increases your % of rise in a car known for having a pretty high amount already. Take a picture directly from the side of car. Picture a point about where the shifter ball would be if it were a stick car. That would be a gross estimate of the center of gravity for the car. Now draw a line parallel to the ground through that point. Now draw a second line from the contact patch of the rear tire through the front leaf spring mount(which is your instant center)up through the other line. Where the two lines meet is your % of rise. The farther to the rear, the more likely the rear of the car will rise and it will have less leverage to transfer weight. Which the big front torsion bars are not helping. They have very little, if any stored energy with which to transfer weight. We really need to see what the car is doing now.
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
And adding spring rate is too general of a term. A better description would be a sway bar will “borrow” spring rate from the left side spring to help the right side.
Found it. Out of the Mopar race suspension manual:
33IMP
Well-Known Member
Save the money on shocks. Buy slicks instead.
And as for the spring rate/stiffness rear sway bar question.... that's easily settled. Make a couple passes with it on, then take it off, and see what happens! Can't get much cheaper/easier testing than that!.
just my humble opinion... slicks would just mask the problem(s). Anyone take a sneak peek at some of the times ran on 26x8.5 or 9" drag radials ??? yeah....
Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
I can see why guys go faster on a radial. If they are hitting a slick as hard as they are hitting a radial they are killing .2 so fast it would make your head spin.
furrystump
Well-Known Member
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The rear sway bar keep, helps with keeping the rear level on launch.
33IMP
Well-Known Member
.....and I'll bet they aren't Nittos. If slicks cure the problem, than he can play with solutions for making his drag radials work.
Of course, if slicks solve the problem, he may not bother.
33IMP
Well-Known Member
Slow motion video.
Professor Fate
Push the button, Max...
Everyone's got good ideas, but...
If I'm reading him right, OP's car is still primarily his street car; and his main concern is the tires going up in smoke on his occasional track day, and how to improve the situation without re-engineering the whole thing. Maybe I'm wrong, sometimes I assume too much.
Six cylinder bars are great on the strip, but as mentioned can be a pain on the street- its nice to navigate speed bumps and parking lot entrances without jarring your fillings loose and/or crushing your headers... Thus loosening up the current bars a bit at the strip- not perfect, but is some help. As is disconnecting the anti-sway bars, the rear one try both ways and let the results be your guide.
I missed the part about stock-length rear shocks- yeah, those are probably topping out and hurting you there. Longer shocks needed, definitely. And make sure they're adjustable ON THE CAR, some need to be removed to adjust them. Pain in the arse for a street-duty car.
Nobody's mentioned an adjustable pinion snubber yet, but honestly, I've never needed one. Your results may vary, especially if you're on slicks.
Slicks might be a mask or a band-aid, but like a band-aid, they can serve their purpose. You're not "hitting them" hard enough with a relatively mild 'teener to make a huge difference, but they WILL hook instead of going up in your current cloud of smoke, which hurts your 60 ft. and et more.
And while you're finding your best air pressure in the slicks, throw a few extra psi in the front tires. Helps a bit with rolling resistance, and may even aid front end rise a miniscule amount.
Lots of time involved finding your ideal setup, which as you said can be a pain with the limited amount of runs you can get at a test'n tune session; but once you've got it figured out you should be able to roll in, swap tires and perform your tweeks in short order and be able to spend the rest of your evening getting in as many runs as you can and having fun.
Of course, if I'm reading you wrong and you want to re-do everything, then you can ignore me.
If I'm reading him right, OP's car is still primarily his street car; and his main concern is the tires going up in smoke on his occasional track day, and how to improve the situation without re-engineering the whole thing. Maybe I'm wrong, sometimes I assume too much.
Six cylinder bars are great on the strip, but as mentioned can be a pain on the street- its nice to navigate speed bumps and parking lot entrances without jarring your fillings loose and/or crushing your headers... Thus loosening up the current bars a bit at the strip- not perfect, but is some help. As is disconnecting the anti-sway bars, the rear one try both ways and let the results be your guide.
I missed the part about stock-length rear shocks- yeah, those are probably topping out and hurting you there. Longer shocks needed, definitely. And make sure they're adjustable ON THE CAR, some need to be removed to adjust them. Pain in the arse for a street-duty car.
Nobody's mentioned an adjustable pinion snubber yet, but honestly, I've never needed one. Your results may vary, especially if you're on slicks.
Slicks might be a mask or a band-aid, but like a band-aid, they can serve their purpose. You're not "hitting them" hard enough with a relatively mild 'teener to make a huge difference, but they WILL hook instead of going up in your current cloud of smoke, which hurts your 60 ft. and et more.
And while you're finding your best air pressure in the slicks, throw a few extra psi in the front tires. Helps a bit with rolling resistance, and may even aid front end rise a miniscule amount.
Lots of time involved finding your ideal setup, which as you said can be a pain with the limited amount of runs you can get at a test'n tune session; but once you've got it figured out you should be able to roll in, swap tires and perform your tweeks in short order and be able to spend the rest of your evening getting in as many runs as you can and having fun.
Of course, if I'm reading you wrong and you want to re-do everything, then you can ignore me.
Last edited:
Everyone's got good ideas, but...
If I'm reading him right, OP's car is still primarily his street car; and his main concern is the tires going up in smoke on his occasional track day, and how to improve the situation without re-engineering the whole thing. Maybe I'm wrong, sometimes I assume too much.
Six cylinder bars are great on the strip, but as mentioned can be a pain on the street- its nice to navigate speed bumps and parking lot entrances without jarring your fillings loose and/or crushing your headers... Thus loosening up the current bars a bit at the strip- not perfect, but is some help. As is disconnecting the anti-sway bars, the rear one try both ways and let the results be your guide.
I missed the part about stock-length rear shocks- yeah, those are probably topping out and hurting you there. Longer shocks needed, definitely. And make sure they're adjustable ON THE CAR, some need to be removed to adjust them. Pain in the arse for a street-duty car.
Nobody's mentioned an adjustable piniion snubber yet, but honestly, I've never needed one. Your results may vary, especially if you're on slicks.
Slicks might be a mask or a band-aid, but like a band-aid, they can serve their purpose. You're not "hitting them" hard enough with a relatively mild 'teener to make a huge difference, but they WILL hook instead of going up in your current cloud of smoke, which hurts your 60 ft. and et more.
And while you're finding your best air pressure in the slicks, throw a few extra psi in the front tires. Helps a bit with rolling resistance, and may even aid front end rise a miniscule amount.
Lots of time involved finding your ideal setup, which as you said can be a pain with the limited amount of runs you can get at a test'n tune session; but once you've got it figured out you should be able to roll in, swap tires and perform your tweeks in short order and be able to spend the rest of your evening getting in as many runs as you can and having fun.
Of course, if I'm reading you wrong and you want to re-do everything, then you can ignore me.
You are reading me right. I'll do what I need to do while keeping it street first. I just don't want to change out my entire suspension if I don't have to. Thanks for the sharing your experience!
Cley
well, most won't do it like me... but here goes...
- Remove sway bars.
- Put 28 psi in the rear tires
- Don't overheat drag radials
- 70/30 front shocks
- Caltracs with SS springs .... or, go back to factory leafs and use a cheap traction bar set up right
- Let the big red "X"'s begin LOL
I never would have gone to 28psi. I do run about that or a bit more on the street. Thanks for the thoughts.
Cley
Cley
Professor Fate
Push the button, Max...
Why would anybody X you about that? Opinions were asked for, and you're giving yours. Lotsa ways to skin a possum. (Like 'em too much to say "cat")
And just throwing this out there to show that it works.... my Duster is a half second faster than yours in just the 60 ft.... and I have an open rear end, 26x8" tire.
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