how much initial timing mild 360 magnum

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dustoff440

dustoff440

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I'm thinking starting with 34 degrees total 24 in the distributor and 10 balancer for 34 total. I know that 24 is a lot in the distributor for starting but I've bought an msd6a and a msd 8982 module which drops 20 degrees out for starting and also has a presettable retard for nitrous.Do ya think that 24 initial in the dizzy is too much or should I add more because I can drop 20 degrees at starting/? The springs are set for the maximum advance to be all in by 2500 rpm. I'm also going to run a converter that will flash to 2800, and sure grip 3.91, cam .500 lift 276/286 lsa 112 power band 1800-5800, air gap knock off with a massaged 850 thermoquad. I'm wanting as good throttle response as possible.
 
1wild&crazyguy said:
As much as it will still start with, fully warmed up.
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Are you saying that if I can start it with all the advance in the distributor by dropping 20 degrees with the msd 8983 at start I should go for it?? Won't it be susceptible to ping??? Is all advance in by 2500 a good starting point???
 
You're saying your dizzy has 24 degrees of mechanical advance? Or is your advance in the dizzy locked?

You're saying its all in by 2500, so I'm thinking you mean 24 degrees of mechanical advance.

I'd start at 12* initial without worrying about a start retard. I'm guessing yours will like 14 or 16 initial best. The magnum heads don't need as much timing as the older stuff because the chamber works better.

Probably however, you won't be able to tell the difference between 12 and 16 except at the track. Yes, all in by 2500 is a good place to start.

Steve
 
I got my best power with my mild 360 magnum at no more then 32*, I wouldn't set the int. that high if you have decent vacuum, The cam seems mild enough, whats the vacuum reading, i would set it for highest vacuum & leave it there, then reset it for the total. I had my int. at 10* with 20* on the plate all in at 2000 rpm & my vacuum was 17 inches., throttle responce was great, It ran on 87 octane & never ping'd, This was withe RHS heads & stock rotating assembly.

What is the total rundown of the engine build?? Like Dur. @50 on the cam.
 
dustoff440 said:
Are you saying that if I can start it with all the advance in the distributor by dropping 20 degrees with the msd 8983 at start I should go for it?? Won't it be susceptible to ping??? Is all advance in by 2500 a good starting point???
Click to expand...

Does you MSD drop the timing 20* while it's idling?

why would it need to retard while idling>?
do you hit the button during idling periods or when you dump it at the track?
 
In other words....regardless of nitrous use, you need enough timing for the thing run right in the mean time.

re program the module after you dial the timing.mbA to you
 
It was rhetorical....
Amongst other things, If you don't have adequate initial timing, it wont idle very nice...

I'm taking it that you have no idea what I'm getting at.
So.. I can't help you.

Not enough info nor a clear description or notion of understanding.

Good luck.
 
10* on the balancer is not enough.

IMO, you DO NOT need the timing retard module for start up. Period! That is designed more for distributors that are locked out at 30-40* constant timing and helps reduce the load on your starter. In many cases it makes the car idle HORRIBLE. I'd disable it and see what happens.

Time the car with 16-20 initial (on the balancer as you put it) and the rest in the distributor, 14-18, to get your desired total number of 34.
 
crackedback said:
10* on the balancer is not enough.

IMO, you DO NOT need the timing retard module for start up. Period! That is designed more for distributors that are locked out at 30-40* constant timing and helps reduce the load on your starter. In many cases it makes the car idle HORRIBLE. I'd disable it and see what happens.

Time the car with 16-20 initial (on the balancer as you put it) and the rest in the distributor, 14-18, to get your desired total number of 34.
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OK, thats what I Needed to know. I had thought that there would be a major in benefit in having as much initial timing as possible say 24 degrees initial and 10 degrees in the distributor, which, I was hoping would help the motor in terms of better throttle response once I tuned all the other things like the accelerator pump squirter.

http://www.badasscars.com/index.cfm?ptype=product&product_id=76&prd76.htm
 
How are you planning on adjusting the mechanical advance in the dizzy? What distributor are you using?

I run 16* initial in mine with 22* in the distributor. 38 total

I can't believe anyone still uses that MSD junk. Buy multiple boxes and have to wire all this crap together, mount it, collect pills (or get an expensive box with some dials on it and mount that too) and then if it has to come out of the car, you have to either completely uninstall it or cut the wiring.

This Mallory Hyfire box is the shiznat.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MAA-685/

It has two step and high rpm rev limit, start retard (that only takes timing out during cranking and you can take out however much you want, not 10 or 24 like MSD), and window switch for nitrous (or high RPM timing retard). It also has a built in boost retard that is adjustable in 1/2* per pound of boost increments -but you have to buy the MAP sensor separate.

Its one box to wire in, has a weatherpack if it ever has to come out, no BS pills - all digital, and it costs just a little bit more than a plain jane 6AL. As an added bonus its quieter than the MSD junk.
 
Hmmm:

"To really make a trick street set-up you should only have about 10 degrees or so of mechanical advance in the distributor and about 24 - 26 degrees of initial timing on the crank to obtain your total of 34 - 36 degrees of total timing. This will launch you out of the hole much harder, and give you great jack rabbit starts from street light to street light."

Maybe with a stock 318. My car will burn the tires down to the lug nuts if I try to leave hard with even a base level of initial timing. Savvy street racers use a timed retard to pull timing out for one or two seconds so they can get off the line without annihilating the tires...

On the track my car never sees less than 2500 RPM and all my timing is in by then anyway.
 
You're confusing stuff here. You mention initial in the distributor of 24*, that's not initial, it's mechanical advance controlled by weights, springs and engine rpm.. Should have zero effect at idle.

Initial is the timing on the crank balancer. Set that first. Make sure it doesn't change when you pull the car in gear, that's BAD! Then determine how much mechanical advance you need to get the total number (total - initial).

LX, JD451 and 1wild have some good advice in here as well.

We used to run dual pickups in distributors to retard launch timing way back before electronics made it easy. Just what you needed, more buttons.switchesto flip as if you weren't busy enough. :)
 
Ok, decision made, I'm going to do as lxguy suggested go with about 10 degrees mechanical advance in the distributor and 22-24 initial. I want the car to leave the line as hard as possible. I have the MP distributor(Mallory YH) which has fully adjustable advance (later one with the torx screws for the advance plate adjustment) and I am going to start with 10 degrees mechanical and 22-24 initial.If it really affects idle quality or make is start hard I'll back it off a few degrees at a time till it's a good situation. Right now it's already set up for full advance by 2600 I may leave that alone for now and fiddle with it later. The converter combined with the high amount of initial as lx suggested should make the car leave hard. Now I may have to do something extra for traction. Thanks everyone for the input.


Here's a link to a description of the dizzy.

.http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/elec/29.html

http://www.summitracing.com/search/...nd-YT-Series-Advance-Curve-Kits/?autoview=SKU
 
LXguy said:
How are you planning on adjusting the mechanical advance in the dizzy? What distributor are you using?

I run 16* initial in mine with 22* in the distributor. 38 total

I can't believe anyone still uses that MSD junk. Buy multiple boxes and have to wire all this crap together, mount it, collect pills (or get an expensive box with some dials on it and mount that too) and then if it has to come out of the car, you have to either completely uninstall it or cut the wiring.

This Mallory Hyfire box is the shiznat.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MAA-685/

It has two step and high rpm rev limit, start retard (that only takes timing out during cranking and you can take out however much you want, not 10 or 24 like MSD), and window switch for nitrous (or high RPM timing retard). It also has a built in boost retard that is adjustable in 1/2* per pound of boost increments -but you have to buy the MAP sensor separate.

Its one box to wire in, has a weatherpack if it ever has to come out, no BS pills - all digital, and it costs just a little bit more than a plain jane 6AL. As an added bonus its quieter than the MSD junk.
Click to expand...


This part is temporarily out of stock, but you can order it now. Estimated ship date: 7/24/2011
 
abodyjoe said:
This part is temporarily out of stock, but you can order it now. Estimated ship date: 7/24/2011
Click to expand...

Yea, I researched the Hyfire and when I have the coins to get one I definitely will. It has a ton of features and is fully programmable without all the pills/modules. The MSD stuff will be going back. Thanks for the heads up.
 
abodyjoe said:
This part is temporarily out of stock, but you can order it now. Estimated ship date: 7/24/2011
Click to expand...

That's odd. Maybe people are finally catching on. LOL.

Summit's "house brand" boxes are mallory in a different case, or at least from the same factory and they're backordered too. Something must be up.

For the record, I was suggesting a more moderate amount of initial and leaving some advance in the dizzy. But sounds like a plan. Not like its real hard to change for experimentation purposes.
 
I'd love to jump into this thread but..............I'm thinking it's too advanced for me........perhaps, it's because I'm retarded :sign3:
 
LXguy said:
That's odd. Maybe people are finally catching on. LOL.

Summit's "house brand" boxes are mallory in a different case, or at least from the same factory and they're backordered too. Something must be up.

For the record, I was suggesting a more moderate amount of initial and leaving some advance in the dizzy. But sounds like a plan. Not like its real hard to change for experimentation purposes.
Click to expand...

That's it exactly, the Dart is a toy and I can experiment till I get it right where I want it......Thanks
 
LXguy said:
Seems like thats more money for a Chinese dizzy and you get no rev limiters, start retard, etc?

PLus its kinda ugly.
Click to expand...

I agree, I liked my Mallory Highfire 6AL & an MSD dist., I ran one of those Procomp dizzys, but the cheaper one, it was OK, but not easy to setup the Mech. advance, So i tried there "ready to run" units that has the HEI style, it was a total POS.
 
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