Hyper vs Forged

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mopar4x4stroker

mopar4x4stroker

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What would you guys suggest, I'm building a daily driven 408 that will live in the unforgiving climate of ND were temp can range from -40 - 120 deg. Not the best environment for hp motors, lots of sacrifice and compromise. One of which is piston alloy.

I'd like to go forged but the req cyl wall clearance scares me. I'm woried about cold start operation/noise/wear. I've been told that the skirts on forges wear out fast in cold conditions due to expansion and molecular characteristic of 2618 alloy. I wont be using boost or funny gas so forged would t really be necessary??? The only thing that scares me w/ hypers is, I've been told that just the slightest presence of deto and you can say bye bye.

Whats your thoughts on hypers, have you experienced mild to moderate pinging (N/A) and not had it go boom. I'm no expert tunner, I cant make any guarantees that my tune will be perfect and I might experience some light pinging at first. But, if it only takes one time to go boom than maybe I should consider looking at forged.

Any help would be MUCH appreciated cuz I plan to buy some pistons sometime in the next week. Thanks
 
mopar4x4stroker said:
What would you guys suggest, I'm building a daily driven 408 that will live in the unforgiving climate of ND were temp can range from -40 - 120 deg. Not the best environment for hp motors, lots of sacrifice and compromise. One of which is piston alloy.

I'd like to go forged but the req cyl wall clearance scares me. I'm woried about cold start operation/noise/wear. I've been told that the skirts on forges wear out fast in cold conditions due to expansion and molecular characteristic of 2618 alloy. I wont be using boost or funny gas so forged would t really be necessary??? The only thing that scares me w/ hypers is, I've been told that just the slightest presence of deto and you can say bye bye.

Whats your thoughts on hypers, have you experienced mild to moderate pinging (N/A) and not had it go boom. I'm no expert tunner, I cant make any guarantees that my tune will be perfect and I might experience some light pinging at first. But, if it only takes one time to go boom than maybe I should consider looking at forged.

Any help would be MUCH appreciated cuz I plan to buy some pistons sometime in the next week. Thanks
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If you want forged, go "forged", don't be too worried about cylinder/skirt clearance & noise, todays forged pistons are much lighter then say the TRWs, they were heavy & could be noisy when cold, Go forged & don't worry.

Hypers are good to, very strong, & will hold up to some nitrous or boost, timing/fuel is more criticle as they don't like detination, neither do forged pistons, but there much stronger, If this makes you feel better, most if not all today automobiles come with hyper pistons.
 
I run the KB356 hyper quench dome, 10.1 w/60cc heads and .060 milled off the quench pad for .035 quench distance, Ill be dyno'ing the 410 in 3 weeks.

They weigh 496 grams, the pin weighs 110.

They work good and cost lil.
 
StrokerScamp said:
The search button.
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God you make me laugh.. A smartazz is always better than a dumbazz

I've been warned by a very experienced engine builder not to turbo with hypers or nos,being that they are very brittle due to the hi silicon content in the metal. Detonation as mentioned is a very bad thing for hypers,so be sure to polish the he$$ out of the combustion chambers and piston tops etc.
 
needsaresto said:
God you make me laugh.. A smartazz is always better than a dumbazz

I've been warned by a very experienced engine builder not to turbo with hypers or nos,being that they are very brittle due to the hi silicon content in the metal. Detonation as mentioned is a very bad thing for hypers,so be sure to polish the he$$ out of the combustion chambers and piston tops etc.
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Thats fine, but i know the truth, Call United engines, they are the makers of KBs, see what they tell ya, the president of the company & i spoke, i remember clearly what he said about running nitrous, this was a good 7-8 yrs. ago. Like i said earlier, todays engines have hyper pistons & people blow nitrous through them all the time & no issues, don't be scared, keep your tuneup in the guidelines & don't get greedy & you'll be fine, there are guys blowing 175 through them & all is good, KBs too. :thumrigh:
 
The op isnt running nitrous.






FWIW I have pinged with hypers, no shattered pistons or broken ring lands.

I even had a 7/5 terminal jump from bad cap/rotor phasing with a mopar distributor, it did not shatter or even pit the piston....
...What it did do was scuff the no.5 skirt & cylinder wall just like any piston would do, wether forged/cast in this scenario..
 
If you have the bucks go with a high quality forged piston and install a block heater so it'll never be cold when you start it.
 
1968FormulaS340 said:
They also come with sophisticated engine management systems that will protect the engine.
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Understandable, but thats no excuse to want to say well they won't hold up in an older engine thats carb'd with less sophistication, because they will.
 
Magnum engines, arent they hypereutectic?

I remember changing umpteen plenum gaskets from them leaking and causing a lean condition that had every one of them ping with load, up hill, passing on the freeway........my own 96 1500 360 magnum was driven like that for god knows how before I got it, then I changed the plenum gasket.

No broken or shattered pistons.
 
1wild&crazyguy said:
Magnum engines, arent they hypereutectic?

I remember changing umpteen plenum gaskets from them leaking and causing a lean condition that had every one of them ping with load, up hill, passing on the freeway........my own 96 1500 360 magnum was driven like that for god knows how before I got it, then I changed the plenum gasket.

No broken or shattered pistons.
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I'm sure they are, i've seen Hypers break, I've never seen one that exploded, the ones i've seen had cracks & the skirt broken off, but this was from running alot of nitrous through them & having a mis-hap in the timing or fuel, yeah s*it happen lol.
 
Got Speed Pro hypers in my Scamp's 360. They've been in there for ten years now and haven't hurt one yet. With 12.7:1 compression I run 110 race gas though but I had to cut the crap out of the valve reliefs to fit my cam in there, the top of the piston where the exhaust relief meets it is only .090 thick.
 
JoeDust451 said:
I'm sure they are, i've seen Hypers break, I've never seen one that exploded, the ones i've seen had cracks & the skirt broken off, but this was from running alot of nitrous through them & having a mis-hap in the timing or fuel, yeah s*it happen lol.
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I drove around for months with a scuffed and cracked skirt KB243 buzzin 6800+, had a loud slap at idle but never came apart.
I ended up buying 1 new piston and sleeving that hole.

The Hypers are a lot more durable than people give them credit for..:eek:fftheai:
 
mopar4x4stroker said:
The only thing that scares me w/ hypers is, I've been told that just the slightest presence of deto and you can say bye bye.
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This is not even remotely true. Do some detonation with the hugely elevated cylinder pressures from large shots of nitrous and all bets are off, but for a N/A street driver you aren't going to break pistons from detonation.

mopar4x4stroker said:
Whats your thoughts on hypers, have you experienced mild to moderate pinging (N/A) and not had it go boom. I'm no expert tunner, I cant make any guarantees that my tune will be perfect and I might experience some light pinging at first. But, if it only takes one time to go boom than maybe I should consider looking at forged.
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Yes have had mild pinging on many hyper piston motors never hurt a piston. Have you ever ridden in a RAM that didn't ping or knock sometimes? -94-99 Mustangs have hyper pistons and rattle all the time also.

mopar4x4stroker said:
Any help would be MUCH appreciated cuz I plan to buy some pistons sometime in the next week. Thanks
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Hyper pistons are typically quieter on cold startup and lighter than shelf forged pistons also.

I have seen a hyper piston explode and take out a motor, but it took a 300 hp nitrous shot on pump gas. This same motor had survived dozens of passes on a mere 200 shot before the owner got greedy. Chevy motor.

IMG_0395.jpg
 
This will be for a n/a 408 on 91oct that will be going in my 86 W150. It wont see more than 500hp and rev no higher than 6500rpm. I was gona go with forged IC983 27cc 9.1:1 or hyper KB416 25cc 9.3:1. It sounds like hypers can handle more than the factory thin-wall block, so I'll order me a set of hypers.

What rings would guys suggest for the best longevity???

Thanks for all the input :thumrigh:
 
mopar4x4stroker said:
This will be for a n/a 408 on 91oct that will be going in my 86 W150. It wont see more than 500hp and rev no higher than 6500rpm. I was gona go with forged IC983 27cc 9.1:1 or hyper KB416 25cc 9.3:1. It sounds like hypers can handle more than the factory thin-wall block, so I'll order me a set of hypers.

What rings would guys suggest for the best longevity???

Thanks for all the input :thumrigh:
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Get some hastings or some mahl 'perfect circle' single moly, but consult the machinist who's doing the bore finish.

fwiw...My 410 uses KB356 hypers @ 10.1, .564 lift & 6600rpm, and soon to go on the dyno....stay tuned!
 
A simple take on HYPERs....

Car duty is not heavy duty, W150 duty is not heavy duty, 6500RPM's isn't heavy duty either...... Hypers are fine, and most car/light duty/race engines get tore down long before the bore gets extremely out of tolerance.

What a hyper can't do?

Climb a 7 mile long hill in the 4bbls, in second gear with 15K behind ya, over and over and over........ OR, run in a wore out bore......

Good news, I seem to be the only one on earth that expects my motors to do this, and I knew this before I built my 390. I used Hypers to save money, set them up dead nuts, and now have seven nice hyper pistons, and a sleeve and a set of Ross in the 390.

Hypers are fine, but cannot be compared to the forged. It's simply peaches to bananas.
 
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