I need some information about tie rod end construction

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dodgemahal

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I'm getting into the weeds on the suspension of my '73 Dart. I removed the damaged boot from a factory tie rod end and began to look at it closely. I see that the stud has a ball on the end of it that articulates inside a socket. That socket, in turn, articulates inside of a larger socket. Am I correct in this? Are both allowed to articulate? I'm sure the bigger ball is, but I'm not sure if the smaller ball at the end of the stud is supposed to move around.

I'm trying to determine if they need to be replaced. Thanks.
 
Moving like a swivel is normal but moving in and out in a hammering like motion is worn out, as in the socket is egged and there is play between ball and socket.
 
Like a replacement hip joint.
replacement hip.jpg
 
What's the "both" you're talking about? A tie rod only has one ball/socket.

A new one should be tight and hard to swivel, but swivel-able.
A used one should be tight and free to swivel.
A junk one will have slop in it.
1713896572520.png


I think you're seeing the bushing inside the housing, between the ball and the housing end. When they're made, the housing is 'crimped' around the ball and bushing. It's not common for the bushing to move too, but not impossible.

If you hold the housing, the stud should not be able to be pulled up or down.
 
There looks to be a smaller socket nested inside a larger socket. See my original post. These are factory pieces.....not like the one in the picture above. I'll send a picture, yeah that's it, a picture!
 
jos51700 said:
What's the "both" you're talking about? A tie rod only has one ball/socket.

A new one should be tight and hard to swivel, but swivel-able.
A used one should be tight and free to swivel.
A junk one will have slop in it.
View attachment 1716240596

I think you're seeing the bushing inside the housing, between the ball and the housing end. When they're made, the housing is 'crimped' around the ball and bushing. It's not common for the bushing to move too, but not impossible.

If you hold the housing, the stud should not be able to be pulled up or down.
Click to expand...
The left pic shows the stud, integral to a small ball at its base, swiveled outboard, and the right picture is swiveled inboard. Net travel at the top of the stud about 1/2". Now, understand all that is encased in the much larger ball that you can clearly see, and that of course, swivels to a greater degree. That's two ball and sockets!

Bear in mind there's no slop, and no "up or down" movement. Should I call it good? I take it no one has noticed this before?

20240424_100721.jpg


20240424_100614.jpg
 
toolmanmike said:
Like a replacement hip joint. View attachment 1716240584
Click to expand...
My grandma had 2 of those...at the same time...and she used to drink Budweiser with me on her old TV trays while watching the Chicago Cubs. She taught me how to Waltz after the double replacement whether I needed to know or not. LOL She was the **** of the walk with a double swivel.
 
dodgemahal said:
The left pic shows the stud, integral to a small ball at its base, swiveled outboard, and the right picture is swiveled inboard. Net travel at the top of the stud about 1/2". Now, understand all that is encased in the much larger ball that you can clearly see, and that of course, swivels to a greater degree. That's two ball and sockets!

Bear in mind there's no slop, and no "up or down" movement. Should I call it good? I take it no one has noticed this before?

View attachment 1716241039

View attachment 1716241040
Click to expand...
The inner piece you're seeing is the bushing. My guess is, if you wipe it off, it may be white plastic.
 
Out local city recycling says...

"When in doubt, throw it out."

Tie rod ends are cheap, replace them.
 
dodgemahal said:
I scraped at mine with a dental pick -- it's definitely cold hard steel. In your image, the white part is plastic, right? Does it articulate there? Mine does. It moves 1st, then the bigger ball moves 2nd. Is that okay? That's what I need to know.

View attachment 1716241126
Click to expand...

It could certainly have a steel bushing. If there's no slop, do it to it. Plastic bushings might be why so many new parts turn to crap so quickly.
 
jos51700 said:
I agree, but finding quality parts these days, man.....
Click to expand...
Chineesium parts make me wretch. Are Moog parts still made in America? It's veritable crisis in auto parts these days. Don't get me started! I once returned a crank sensor 3 times. Finally got smart and ordered a Mopar brand.

There's a whole school of thought that says if your OEM parts are still good... use them, even if they have some looseness. They will far outlast the cheap crap sold today.
 
The factory joints had metal bushings. Most all (even MOOG) new production joints now use plastic in them. Yes I believe that bushing moves around in there. It wont move much on a new joint but is noticeable on one with miles. If there is no slop in it, run it.
 
MoparMike1974 said:
The factory joints had metal bushings. Most all (even MOOG) new production joints now use plastic in them. Yes I believe that bushing moves around in there. It wont move much on a new joint but is noticeable on one with miles. If there is no slop in it, run it.
Click to expand...
Okay, why not? The worst that can happen is that if they fail, and I'll have to pop them out and replace them with aftermarket. Thanks for pushing me off the fence. My nards were starting to hurt.
 
Dont be scared of plastic in the joints either. Some of these plastics are harder than metal.
 
My factory originals are back home with 60K very gentle miles on them. They look good in their neighborhood, especially with brandy new Energy dust boots.
 
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