Idea for a virtual and true ENGINEMASTERS CHALLENGE

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@RAMM Is your head swimming yet????

Tell us your thoughts once there collected.
 
I would think more different engines allowed to compete the easier to find people to participate, could have handicap rules for certain things if deemed necessary eg. like stock vs aftermarket heads or whatever.
 
Screw handicaps. That’s lame. Run what ya brung and let’er rip!
All specs of the engine would be listed and everyone can judge it from there.

In the engine masters arena, it was a dollar *I think* and partial equipment limit so what you spend and other factors are given a math equation for the best power vs dollars spent on the size of the engine.

So….. if you think you can make great power with a “As Cast” OEM head, go for it. I don’t think anyone (with any kind of class at least) is going to poke fun at anyone.

After all, if you rebrews the first post, he likes the idea of a 440 build off using stock parts.
 
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RAMM said:
I've got a wild idea that was spurned on by the UTG/DV/Andy deal and my experience with EMC.



Since EMC is no more I've been really missing the whole thought exercise of it. So I figure in the age of Youtube, ZOOM, TEAMS meetings, and online collaborations WHY couldnt a engine building challenge still take place? The engine build rules are easy-we can talk about that later.







Here's what I'm thinking:



1. We contact some youtubers with engine building content and we all agree to build an engine within a set of rules.



2. On the date of competition we dyno test the engines . Same as EMC avghp/tq + / ci x1000 equals score.



3. The engine then gets shipped off to a fellow contestant for dyno testing. We can keep this honest a couple of ways but we need more than 2 contestants. I want to discuss this further



4. For obvious reasons I'd like to make this Mopar specific but at the very least it should be kept to inline valve only. This eliminates convolution with Hemi/Canted designs.



4.a. A friend of mine had a great idea with Nick's garage in mind. Since he builds a lot of 440,s Why don't we agree to build 440,s with ALL stock parts- It wouldn't be hard to make up a parts list that could not be violated and was also available.



I figure we could limit this to youtubers within Canada for the first goround for logistical reasons. We would need to generate some income via sponsorship to cover engine shipping if they are going to travel cross country at the very least. J.Rob



P.s. Mods feel free to move this if you don't want this in this sub-forum.
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So if all stock parts are used, what changes would be allowed? How can different builders make changes to compete? Should do a 383 build instead of 440, keep cost down. Looks like fun!
 
Everyone likes the idea but they want it to go by their engine choice. Ramm came up with the idea why Dont you let Ramm set the perimeters instead of going in 15 different directions. If it ends up being a 440 I will donate an early I think HP block to any eligible team willing to pick it up in Pa. Some yahoo thought it was a great idea to pull the engine with a high lift so there is a hole in the block that would require patching. I Dont think that would break any rules as it’s not performance gaining.
 
ou812 said:
So if all stock parts are used, what changes would be allowed? How can different builders make changes to compete? Should do a 383 build instead of 440, keep cost down. Looks like fun!
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I do like the B block with a RB crank idea. It could help a few fellas through the door.
 
ou812 said:
So if all stock parts are used, what changes would be allowed? How can different builders make changes to compete? Should do a 383 build instead of 440, keep cost down. Looks like fun!
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IMO, a short list of basic rules would be done. BUT…. I know some smarty pants will find a loop hole.

What’s your thoughts to keep it cheap and level so that a regular Joe Blow can build himself and not break the bank.
How about ideas/rules on ….

All OEM parts only
Block over bore limitations to???
OEM heads only limited to???
Intake limitations too???
Carb limitations to???
Crank at stock stroke only, no off set grinding allowed?

.030 over or what ever can be obtained
Heads ported, no epoxy, what ever valve size it came with or what ever fits
Ported OEM iron Ok
Mess with the stock Carter anyway you see fit?
If a OWM is a Holley, stock cam size only?

This could get a bit nutty but crazy of “Other items” or extremes are allowed.
 
I imagine some might pick one from under the bench and do a refresh.
 
rumblefish360 said:
IMO, a short list of basic rules would be done. BUT…. I know some smarty pants will find a loop hole.

What’s your thoughts to keep it cheap and level so that a regular Joe Blow can build himself and not break the bank.
How about ideas/rules on ….

All OEM parts only
Block over bore limitations to???
OEM heads only limited to???
Intake limitations too???
Carb limitations to???
Crank at stock stroke only, no off set grinding allowed?

.030 over or what ever can be obtained
Heads ported, no epoxy, what ever valve size it came with or what ever fits
Ported OEM iron Ok
Mess with the stock Carter anyway you see fit?
If a OWM is a Holley, stock cam size only?

This could get a bit nutty but crazy of “Other items” or extremes are allowed.
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I can't find a good link to the 2020 "Masters of Motors" rules which I recall being a little simpler, but I did find the 2019 Rules for Early Iron. I'm thinking rules along these lines but simplified--like no EFI, don't care about over bore size, or offset ground cranks as the cubic inch factor takes care of that. Wanna bore you're 318 .125" ? go ahead. I would emphasize stock iron heads only--NO aftermarket EQ/RHS/W2 ONLY production iron.

As for the approved parts list I was just thinking real simple like a few piston #'s (which would limit rod choices), maybe head gaskets, single 4150 carb, oil pump, SFI balancer etc... J.Robhttps://st.hotrod.com/uploads/sites/21/2016/06/EMC_Early-Iron-Rules_2_5_19.pdf
 
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I think anything and everything should be allowed but apply a rigidly enforced budgetary limit, that forces innovation and careful parts selection.

I'd keep it limited to mopars, because that's what we're interested here TBH.
 
Opening it up to anything can invite Victor & W9 heads which is not a budget option for most. So it yourself’ers can claim a cheap head, used parts and port themselves. I don’t think that is in the spirt of things.

I think, IMO, the idea here is just a spotted competition among FABO members doing a build inexpensively using common parts readily available.

IF …. IF ….. RAMM decided to allow after market heads, IMO, they should be run as close to a OOTB condition as possible. I could see a upgraded valve job done as the only mod since many people will take the heads to be checked out and a upgraded valve job on top of any correction fixes is a reasonable expenditure.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Opening it up to anything can invite Victor & W9 heads which is not a budget option for most. So it yourself’ers can claim a cheap head, used parts and port .....
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I think It would largely depend on the budget cap. Let's say you can spend $5k max including machining costs on the whole engine, no sweetheart "I bought this 426 from my buddy for $2k" bs. It's going to be difficult to build anything exotic with that kind of limit.
 
Honesty and integrity in adherence to the rules is what must happen. Trying to wiggle room from the cracks in the rules should not be permitted though asking about them is probably an honest question to ask.

All in all, the basic spirt of a build anyone can do should be the route taken rather than relying on loads of cash and pro’s.

How does that sound @RAMM ???
 
rumblefish360 said:
Honesty and integrity in adherence to the rules is what must happen. Trying to wiggle room from the cracks in the rules should not be permitted though asking about them is probably an honest question to ask.

All in all, the basic spirt of a build anyone can do should be the route taken rather than relying on loads of cash and pro’s.

How does that sound @RAMM ???
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Totally agree but it will not likely happen. It would be ideal if we could get at least 3-4 dyno facilities involved. The dyno results could be emailed or snail mailed to a 3rd party and the info could/should be held confidential until all results are in. Maybe the highest/lowest results could be thrown out or some kind of factor put in place to hold an unscrupulous/ erroneous operator accountable. Or maybe we just look at uncorrected/raw numbers and lbs/fuel/b.s.f.c? I don't know yet. Or if there is 3 contestants (I'd like to start small honestly see how this goes) they can test em all they want at their facility and then they are shipped to a 4th facility for unbiased testing. I don't know if its really possible to keep it 100% fair but is anything besides God truly fair and just? J.Rob
 
LMAO - TRUE THAT!

Well, given there is no prize but the local FABO community praise, I think you’ll be alright.
 
RAMM said:
Totally agree but it will not likely happen. It would be ideal if we could get at least 3-4 dyno facilities involved. The dyno results could be emailed or snail mailed to a 3rd party and the info could/should be held confidential until all results are in. Maybe the highest/lowest results could be thrown out or some kind of factor put in place to hold an unscrupulous/ erroneous operator accountable. Or maybe we just look at uncorrected/raw numbers and lbs/fuel/b.s.f.c? I don't know yet. Or if there is 3 contestants (I'd like to start small honestly see how this goes) they can test em all they want at their facility and then they are shipped to a 4th facility for unbiased testing. I don't know if its really possible to keep it 100% fair but is anything besides God truly fair and just? J.Rob
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You can’t really use uncorrected torque and horsepower if for no other reason than correction factor differences.
 
qkcuda said:
Interesting idea, seems like agreeing on parameters is going to be like herding cats.:rolleyes:
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Could get convoluted pretty quick. Maybe use the old dentist qualifier. "4 out of 5 dentists surveyed agreed that.....". 80% agreeing is pretty good. We cant even get that where I work! Haha.

Sounds like a fun project/contest to follow.
 
383, factory iron heads, manifold, carby, distributor, water pump, oiling system. Other than that do what you want.
 
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