Idea for a virtual and true ENGINEMASTERS CHALLENGE

[4spdragtop]

Stock rocker 1.5 vs 1.6.
1.6 has a penalty applied?
I'll keep throwing ideas out if you want J?
I'm hoping this will get young guns involved and show you dont necessarily need lathes, milling machines etc. to make a good engine. Help get the basics down, more of a teaching tool vs winning.

 

[RAMM]

Stock rocker 1.5 vs 1.6.
1.6 has a penalty applied?
I'll keep throwing ideas out if you want J?
I'm hoping this will get young guns involved and show you dont necessarily need lathes, milling machines etc. to make a good engine. Help get the basics down, more of a teaching tool vs winning.

No penalties for any of that stuff--Here's why:

With no $$$ as a reward and only bragging rights you'd be a fool to use a set of $1500.00 T&D's right? J.Rob

 

[IQ52]

It’s too bad IQ52 retired. He was an expert within your parameters and would dominate the field-no offense.

When we look back he has built many engines within most of your requirements and his/& his son’s ability to port stock iron BBM heads is phenomenal.

I wish he would participate one more time. It’s like watching a magic wizard.

Thanks Grey, but I just can't wanna.

 

[rumblefish360]

No penalties for any of that stuff--Here's why:

With no $$$ as a reward and only bragging rights you'd be a fool to use a set of $1500.00 T&D's right? J.Rob

Unless it’s ending up in your own ride.

Engine size? Any and divide it up into what ever basic displacement category it falls under. Small block, stroker small block, etc…..

 

[greymouser7]

Exactly.

But I can come out of retirement. But not for some **** where I have to deal with crusty assed iron **** so the small thinkers on here can call it ingenuity.

And I have access to a dyno.

Please take a look at some of IQ52’s ‘stock’ head/stroke builds. I wanna say he broke past 700hp with a 440. But it has been years since he competed and when I read about the statistics.

With stock cylinder heads and stroke, that is really moving some air.

You said that you don’t concede to older tech BUT engine masters isn’t just engine building and high performance,
These guys slid around the rules like SmokeyYunick. Sliding around the rules WAS part of the competition, they didn’t get hung up on technology, they wanted to compete in skills AND clever interpretation.

Anyways, I’d love to see a stock stroke 400BBM engine, cheap Chinese heads, and a turbo charged induction.

We don’t see many stock stroke builds (383/400), much less turbo builds for mopar’s often.

Stock pistons might lure in amateurs, maybe everyone has to use the same two (type of) turbochargers (decided rockers as well/maybe valve train), 400 blocks are not necessarily sought after-reasonably available, And people could write up rules rewarding cheap, HIGH PERFORMANCE builds.

Anyone participating would be on a learning curve. Maybe no computers, just mechanical wastegates and engineered/fabricated/modified inductions from some typical, available, aftermarket intakes with pipe.

Amateurs might blow up engines and the video drama would be at “Pinks” level with a few explosive Dyno pulls.

 

[Rat Bastid]

Please take a look at some of IQ52’s ‘stock’ head/stroke builds. I wanna say he broke past 700hp with a 440. But it has been years since he competed and when I read about the statistics.

With stock cylinder heads and stroke, that is really moving some air.

You said that you don’t concede to older tech BUT engine masters isn’t just engine building and high performance,
These guys slid around the rules like SmokeyYunick. Sliding around the rules WAS part of the competition, they didn’t get hung up on technology, they wanted to compete in skills AND clever interpretation.

Anyways, I’d love to see a stock stroke 400BBM engine, cheap Chinese heads, and a turbo charged induction.

We don’t see many stock stroke builds (383/400), much less turbo builds for mopar’s often.

Stock pistons might lure in amateurs, maybe everyone has to use the same two (type of) turbochargers (decided rockers as well/maybe valve train), 400 blocks are not necessarily sought after-reasonably available, And people could write up rules rewarding cheap, HIGH PERFORMANCE builds.

Anyone participating would be on a learning curve. Maybe no computers, just mechanical wastegates and engineered/fabricated/modified inductions from some typical, available, aftermarket intakes with pipe.

Amateurs might blow up engines and the video drama would be at “Pinks” level with a few explosive Dyno pulls.

No, what I said and have said and will continue to say is that it’s 2023 and I will not nor will I EVER (with the exception of my W2’s because I have them) grind on another cast iron head.

Ever. For any reason.

I just saw a post from Chad Speier and as of right now he is DONE hand porting anything. Or most anything.

It’s not that I can’t do it (I can) it’s that I will NOT do it.

Big difference.

Has nothing to do with “technology” or anything else. I’m not grinding on cast iron ever again. All my cast iron work is going to Pittsburghracer.

If everyone else would stop grinding on that **** it would die out. And it needs to.

I‘m all in for RAMM’s idea but I have no desire or reason to do CI.

I hope I made that clear.

 

[Killer6]

Budget limits always get ridiculously convoluted because someone always brings a "sweetheart" deal or a "junkyard find".

I think keeping it the simple is better for the first go around is the way to go and that is either keeping OEM blocks/heads/single 4150/10.5 comp /flat tappet lifter and a narrow cubic inch range because we all know a '906 head won't feed a 440 the same as it will a 383. J.Rob

Yep, saw the same thing develop in the Grassroots Motorsports challenge, contestants had to only have the "Year in dollars" spent....but I could see signs of "Frankies Uncle gave Him the Z06 with a blown CV" comin' on the horizon.
And don't laugh, in the '80's a college kid ran an ad in Car&Driver for a free Ferrari, & got one.

 

[greymouser7]

No, what I said and have said and will continue to say is that it’s 2023 and I will not nor will I EVER (with the exception of my W2’s because I have them) grind on another cast iron head.

Ever. For any reason.

I just saw a post from Chad Speier and as of right now he is DONE hand porting anything. Or most anything.

It’s not that I can’t do it (I can) it’s that I will NOT do it.

Big difference.

Has nothing to do with “technology” or anything else. I’m not grinding on cast iron ever again. All my cast iron work is going to Pittsburghracer.

If everyone else would stop grinding on that **** it would die out. And it needs to.

I‘m all in for RAMM’s idea but I have no desire or reason to do CI.

I hope I made that clear.

Is there a way to follow Chad Speier?

 

[Rat Bastid]

Is there a way to follow Chad Speier?

He is going to expand his CNC line so I expect that until he gets all that up and running he will do some hand porting.

IIRC he doesn’t have a CNC so he sends that out but I’m betting he will be investing in his own CNC. Or maybe he already has.

He just can’t physically do it any more.

 

[qkcuda]

Using factory cylinder heads seems to give the advantage to a small cubic inch big block.

 

[Mean416]

I like the idea of a spec aluminum head.

When I said no "style x" I wasn't referring to X casting heads, I was saying don't bar any kind of heads for example w2's.

Honestly if it's unlimited budget it becomes a game of money. Yes I know there's still a skill element, but some guys have a big ego and deep pockets and that's going to be tough to compete with. I'm not that interested in high dollar builds, there's a gazillion megabucks 3000 HP builds on YouTube, which, while very cool, are way beyond anything I can dream of. Might as well build a spaceship.

It's like that engine masters (318 was it?) That made like 509 hp but had big *** holes machined from the block for oil control etc. That thing had a ton of money invested time wise and is not achievable by anyone remotely normal.

I digress. I'll shut up now.

 

[lead69]

Depending on the rules, timing and whether us "yanks" can be involved I think it would be cool but I would like to do a small block. @Rat Bastid and I have a dyno if we could all correlate numbers somehow, hell I will port the heads if they are stock cast just so rat doesn't have too

 

[67autocross]

No penalties for any of that stuff--Here's why:

With no $$$ as a reward and only bragging rights you'd be a fool to use a set of $1500.00 T&D's right? J.Rob

I have never really followed Engine Masters…what kind of horse power per cubic inch would a build need to be competitive…

 

[polyjohn]

My Moparmate bought the dis-qualified 2003 Engine masters 470ci low deck engine.
It was a screamer and made 720hp.

But it had Mega heads, Indy 573-13 and that was its saving grace...

 

[rumblefish360]

Disqualified how?

 

[RLF Cuda]

This is a great idea and one aspect to consider is HP/$ spent with a standard list of part prices from say Summit or Jegs. Another aspect would be HP/CFM. This would compare the quality of the build and tuning capabilities for engines that are corrected to the same air flow. I like these comparisons over simply the highest HP numbers.

 

[Rat Bastid]

This is a great idea and one aspect to consider is HP/$ spent with a standard list of part prices from say Summit or Jegs. Another aspect would be HP/CFM. This would compare the quality of the build and tuning capabilities for engines that are corrected to the same air flow. I like these comparisons over simply the highest HP numbers.

Horsepower to CFM? That’s like comparing BSFC numbers. It only makes sense IF you are comparing two identical engines.

Those kinds of numbers are important as you go along with the development of an engine and then as a way to compare different iterations of the same engine.

And also as a guideline as to how efficient a certain combination is.

Ive seen engines that were horrible in HP/CFM but it made big power and killed it at the track.

 

[Dartswinger70]

f its all Mopar go with 273/318 and 340/360...or isn't that fair. i thought a 318 could do what a 340 could do...