Idler arm hits on header

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redryderr

redryderr

Spacegrass
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West Michigan
See the pic.

'73 Dart, 318, Hooker cheapo headers, new motor mounts, new tranny mount. (all spool type mounts)

Idler arm hits real bad on the header. I've tried two different arms, and the one in the pic clears better than the other one I tried. Even jacking the engine up until the spool mount bolts are almost out of the mounts doesn't come close to clearing. Wondering if anyone else has had a similar issue, and what they've done to resolve? I don't have a problem doing some "dimpling" to the headers, but I'd have to bash that thing to about half it's original diameter to get it to clear - that bothers me a bit!

Thanks!!

idler_hit_header.jpg
 
junior said:
got what you paid for ...lol... black jack has no issues MO MONEY
Good Luck
Click to expand...

Yeah, I suppose the money I saved on cheap headers is going to cost me about 10 times as much in labor and frustration by the time it's over. :thumbdow:
Guess right now I have more time than money.

Thought maybe before I got out the acetylene, ball-pein, and angle grinder, someone on here must have run into this before. Just wondered what their solution was.
 
damn! seen them barley touch before but that is big time interference. is the motor level in there?
 
Headers are awful! I have headman headers and I had to take them off three times in order to get them to fit correctly. I just noticed everything is like a puzzle. If you can figure out the correct order of things it's not so bad. Like bolting tie rods on the Idler arm before you bolt on the headers.
 
abodyjoe said:
damn! seen them barley touch before but that is big time interference. is the motor level in there?
Click to expand...

Yes, motor is in there pretty good. Picture was taken after loosening all the motor/tranny mount bolts and moving things around as much as I could. Even when jacking the motor so high that it's out of the motor mounts, the idler still hits on the tube.

I expected to have to massage these some when I bought them, but this is ridiculous. Wonder if Summit will take back a pair of scratched up brand new headers!
 
myasylum said:
Headers are awful! I have headman headers and I had to take them off three times in order to get them to fit correctly. I just noticed everything is like a puzzle. If you can figure out the correct order of things it's not so bad. Like bolting tie rods on the Idler arm before you bolt on the headers.
Click to expand...

Yeah, like you said, once I figured out the process, I was able to get them bolted in OK. Helped that the motor was just sitting loose in the bay, so I was able to lift and move it around as needed.

Everything else clears pretty good. I'll have to put a little dimple by the power steering box - pretty close fit there. Just that dang idler arm has such a huge clearance issue.
 
Is the rubber in the trans mount in good shape? A worn, sagging trans mount can contribute to that.
 
I would just like to say again though... If you figure out the process it's not that bad, and they do fit.
A lot of people (including me) complain about these headers not fitting correctly and how much they suck. Someone just needs to post good directions to make it easier for people, so they don't have these problems.

I'd do it, but I'm not sure I remember. I was on fire though! :angryfir: by the third try it was cake.

I even remember there is a order in which the bolts should go in first. I think the last two on the end, and the second one.
Put the starter in, and the battery cables first before you bolt on the header.
and have the tie rod and idler arm connected before you hook up the headers too. I didn't do that, and I REFUSED to take the headers off again!
I had to pretty much force the tie rod on the idler arm, because there was no room! It sucked!

Thats what I remember for now.
 
I have Hooker Headers on my Duster and they were a pain in the *** to line up and fit. The passengers side fits easier than the drivers side. I had to lift my engine about 6" in order to get the headers to line up. As for your fit issue this is the 1st time I've seen any headers on an A Body be off so much. Maybe the motor mount rubbers are worn to the point that when the weight of the engine is resting on the mounts, that the headers are being compressed down and thus squeezing the idler arm? I do not know man, wish I could help you. Mine fit fine out of the box.
 
When will you guyz learn. All of the related posts regarding fitment of cheap headers should be a lesson. If you want headers, spend the $$$ or stick w/stock manifolds.
 
All headers have issues to deal with but there is something else wrong,either the header is a reject (misbox ect.) or there is something off in the car.I have never seen or had a header be that far off and Ive used alot of cheap and even swap meet headers.As fars as the get what you paid for mentality there is probaly a 10 to 1 ratio of guys out there in the every day world running cheap headers and do you hear that ratio of complaints?.I have had great luck with summit/flowtech headers and regardless of the devout following by some even ttis have major issues to deal with.My summit headers went in with literally half the work of my buddies ttis (both cars are 340 four speed a-bodies),he was pissed after having to deal with the z-bar issues and put dings on $650.00 headers that are supposed to fit,he wishes now he would have spent the $550 less.
 
Thanks all for the replies.

I didn't actually have too hard of a time getting the headers on the vehicle - a second person would have helped tho! I did the whole "put the car on jack stands and lift the motor with the cherry-picker" thing, had to unbolt the power steering, etc. Everything is in and bolts up and clears except for that one idler arm.

I've never driven this car, or had a motor in it before now so I don't really know the history. Could be that things are out of alignment somewhere? PO may have wrapped it around an oak tree for all I know. When I put the V-8 K-member in everything lined up with no problems so I kind of figured things were pretty straight. Wheel to wheel measures equal on both sides, so I think things are pretty straight.

I do have all new motor and tranny mounts, so I kind of doubt that they are bad. But... I guess they could be bad right out of the box, I've seen bad parts right out of the box before.

I did some bending and tweaking and made things clear. Now it's time to hook things up and see how it sounds:cheers:
 
Heres another one for you...

Spark Plug wires! I just tried to put mine on today. That doesn't work either!

How do you get that last wire in place? it touches the header and will melt right off!!
 
I have a 72 dart and had the same headders and had the same exact issue. We had new rubber mounts, and everything. Long story short I had to take it and get a section cut out of one of the tubes and the guy rerouted it. They were a pain but they sound great, but I wouldnt go with Hooker again.
 
72dart_swinger said:
I have a 72 dart and had the same headders and had the same exact issue. We had new rubber mounts, and everything. Long story short I had to take it and get a section cut out of one of the tubes and the guy rerouted it. They were a pain but they sound great, but I wouldnt go with Hooker again.
Click to expand...

Did you have to weld in any extra length to make it work? Or was just rerouting enough? Did you have to modify just the one tube, or did you have to hack up more than one to make it work? I'd love to see a picture of that mod...
 
myasylum said:
Heres another one for you...

Spark Plug wires! I just tried to put mine on today. That doesn't work either!

How do you get that last wire in place? it touches the header and will melt right off!!
Click to expand...


what kind of boots do ya have?
 
redryderr said:
Did you have to weld in any extra length to make it work? Or was just rerouting enough? Did you have to modify just the one tube, or did you have to hack up more than one to make it work? I'd love to see a picture of that mod...
Click to expand...

I had a local guy do it. I am about 99% sure that he had to add in extra pipe. He just cut out the old section and moved the 1 tube back enough to clear the idler arm. Sorry I cant get any pics for you I am in college about 4 1/2 hours from the house.
 
myasylum said:
Heres another one for you...

Spark Plug wires! I just tried to put mine on today. That doesn't work either!

How do you get that last wire in place? it touches the header and will melt right off!!
Click to expand...

I know that in the summit catalog that they have sleeve type things (sorry cant come up with the word) that are made out of heat resistant fabric that wrap around the boot and are supposed to keep the headers from melting it. I need to get some myself.
 
I use Accel Plug wires with 90 degree ends on the plug side. The wires are kind of hard to put on and pull off especially cylinders #5 and #7 but the wires have never melted or burned despite being right next to the header pipes. Do not even attempt to use straight wires, they will not work.
 
dustermaniac said:
I use Accel Plug wires with 90 degree ends on the plug side. The wires are kind of hard to put on and pull off especially cylinders #5 and #7 but the wires have never melted or burned despite being right next to the header pipes. Do not even attempt to use straight wires, they will not work.
Click to expand...


I haven't put my wires on yet, but I'll probably do the same.
 
well you could just ding it in like mine=headmans

Or fix/adjust the angle of the idler arm to match the pitman angle [by slotting the holes and welding heavy washers snugged to able adjustment ] to correct bump steer, then ding the header accordingly after that.

Just figured while your there.
 
Had a similar problem.
We have Hooker 'Competition' (cheap series) on our 1972 Dart. We installed both new motor mounts and a new transmission mount, which were just standard parts store junk (which might be most of the problem?!?)
Everything fit great with no rubbing anywhere, however after a few weeks here is what happened:
Our Dart is supercharged (360 / T/F-727 / 8-3/4" rear) so it also has a little more weight and more power/torque as well (than a standard n/a small block engine) which is accelerating the death of the cheap mounts even quicker.

dsc03489t.jpg





About 30 seconds with a MIG welder and they were like new again.
I simply sandwiched a couple of large diameter flat washers between the engine & motor mounts (or was it motor mounts & K-memeber?!?) on both sides. Just enough to raise the engine up a touch (~1/8") so it would no longer force the header to contact the nut/stud under hard launch conditions. Even when we took it to the drag strip with slicks on the car it doesn't touch anymore. It was a quick/easy/cheap fix.
They clear everything else great, no other problems.
With good quality urethane transmission & motor mounts it probably wouldn't have even contacted it in the first place, especially without the added heft of the supercharger set-up.

About a week after we installed them, the rear main seal developed a nasty leak. Talk about fun trying to get the oil pan in & out with the headers. Ended up having to loosen them up and it was still a b!tch.
 
Even the most expensive headers won't fit every car. Mopar was sloppy when they welded up the k-frames. My car always was a nightmare with headers. So much I went back to manifolds. But when I dropped the stroker in I went with TTI headers. They would not fit. And the reason was because my k-frame was sloppy and the engine was not sitting in the correct location. I had to notch the motor mount slots to push the engine back and place shims between the motor mounts and k-frame. Pushing the engine back gained tons of room between headers and steering linkage. Shimming took care of the torsion bar interference. Used a Shumacher torque strap to keep engine from moving under load. Took about a week to get it all figured out. But after that the headers bolted in and cleared everything and no dents were required. Had to bend up new trans cooler lines but thats another story.
 
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