Ignition switch/starter relay/ballast wiring help- Painless Kit - FIXED

[Orionsax7]

Just installed a painless kit in my 65 Valiant. All electrical has been tested and checks out great- brake, turn, low and high beams, parking, horn, etc.

Only thing that is not clear in the kit is exactly how to wire the starter relay/ignition switch. I think I have it setup correctly based on circuit descriptions but need another set of eyes on this. It cranks fine and seems like its going to start when the switch is in crank position but as soon as I turn back from start to run, it dies. Thought it was the original ballast so I replaced it but still doing the same thing. Ignition switch(new) has been bench tested. Ig 1 has power in run only, ig 2 has power in start only.

Purple wire in picture comes from ig 2 on switch, through starter relay down to starter.

Pink wire at top of resistor is key on power and goes through resistor to + coil.

2nd pink wire at bottom of resistor is jumper to solenoid pin of starter relay to bypass ballast during cranking.

Ideas? I'd be open to phone conversation today if anyone has good knowledge of this. Thanks!

 

[67Dart273]

It would be way better if you would post the online destructions. Trying to read those is no fun What you are involved with is the ignition switch. the "switch" is of course SEVERAL SEPARATE switches "in one box."

What you have: (original wiring)

1...ACC Hot in both "run" and "acc"

2...START usually YELLOW........is hot only in start and feeds the starter relay

3...IGN1 or "ignition run" usually dark blue. Hot ONLY in "run" goes DEAD in cranking

4...IGN2 or "ignition bypass" usually BROWN. Hot only in start, but SEPARATE from the start circuit above. This goes to coil+ side of ballast, and is the ONLY supply of ignition power during cranking

The last two are what you need to sort out

Found this online, is this the same as your destructions:

https://www.painlessperformance.com/Manuals/10104.pdf

Painless does not seem to address the Mopar switch. You will have to run a separate wire (it seems) from your original IGN2 terminal on the Mopar switch to the coil+ side of the ballast.

 

[Orionsax7]

Manuals | Painless Performance

Harness 10102

Thanks

 

[67Dart273]

Manuals | Painless Performance

Harness 10102

Thanks

Sorry does not work

 

[Orionsax7]

Sorry does not work

Fixed it now

 

[Orionsax7]

Painless does not seem to address the Mopar switch. You will have to run a separate wire (it seems) from your original IGN2 terminal on the Mopar switch to the coil+ side of the ballast.


View attachment 1715623229

The pink wire comes from a 30 amp fuse in the painless fuse box and already has power in both run and start. I added a 2nd pink wire to give the coil full 12v during cranking

 

[67Dart273]

The pink wire comes from a 30 amp fuse in the painless fuse box and already has power in both run and start. I added a 2nd pink wire to give the coil full 12v during cranking

Where did you source this second pink?

That is impossible if you are using a Mopar ignition switch?

I see this from the manual
"PINK: 14gauge wire, printed[ENGINE SECTION A] #920 >>TO COIL (IGNITION HOT)>>,this wire comes from the 30 amp COIL fuse. This wire haspower anytime the ignition switch is in the ON and START positions"

THIS IS INCORRECT if you are using an original Mopar ignition switch. The switch, not the harness, is what regulates what power is provided and when.

 

[Orionsax7]

Update: fixed

After inspecting the back of the fuse box, I saw that the coil fuse only gets power from the pink START wire.

There is a page for dash-mounted ignition switches but ignored it because it states GM, but turns out it applies to Mopar also. IG 1 and IG 2 need to be jumpered together at the switch to provide coil power in both start and run. Did this and now it starts and runs perfectly. Thanks for the extra eyes!

 

[67Dart273]

DAMMIT that is NOT CORRECT if you are using a ballast. Re read post no2. IGN1 from the ignition switch is RUN. It goes DEAD in "start." IGN1 originally provided underhood loads such as VR, alternator fuse, ignition power, electric choke if used, and smog devices if used. THAT IS your ignition feed

IGN2 goes DIRECT from the terminal on the ignition switch to the coil+ side of the ballast, and is hot only in start. IT feeds ignition power to the coil for starting.

You need to run a DIRECT wire from the switch IGN2 to the coil+ side of the ballast. This is NOT provided in the "Painful" harness!!!!

 

[Orionsax7]

That is impossible if you are using a Mopar ignition switch?

I see this from the manual
"PINK: 14gauge wire, printed[ENGINE SECTION A] #920 >>TO COIL (IGNITION HOT)>>,this wire comes from the 30 amp COIL fuse. This wire has power anytime the ignition switch is in the ON and START positions"

THIS IS INCORRECT if you are using an original Mopar ignition switch. The switch, not the harness, is what regulates what power is provided and when.

Agreed here. That is a typo in the Manual, it will only have power in both RUN and START positions if you jump IG1 and IG2 together as stated elsewhere in the Manual(read below).

The orange wire in the painless kit that is connected to Ignition 1 on the switch DOES NOT SEND POWER TO THE COIL(you can see in the rear fuse panel picture, the large orange wire does power most of the other accessory fuses). The pink wire in the kit connected to Ignition 2 does send power to the coil via the fuse(only in start). This is why it seemed like it wanted to start but then dies when switching key back to run. In order to get it working, you need to provide power to the pink coil wire when the key is in the run position. This is achieved by providing a jumper between IG1 and IG2 at the switch as outlined in the Painless manual.

In order to provide the separate function of bypassing the resistor for cranking(which is the function of the original factory brown wire from IG2), you can connect a jumper wire from the coil side of the resistor to the SOL pin on the starter relay, as I did. This provides 12V to the coil during cranking only(and is also mentioned elsewhere in the Painless manual).

I think the main source of confusion here is that the Painless Manual does not specifically mention Mopar ignition switches. It only states "GM DASH MOUNTED." If it had read, "GM AND MOPAR DASH MOUNTED," there would have been absolutely no issues with install.

Overall, I will say that installation of this harness was, in fact, pretty straight-forward. The wiring is all much longer than is needed so you end up with TONS of extra wiring you can re-use for other purposes. The first few pages of the manual, PRE-INSTALLATION GUIDELINES, are the most important. They are the ones that help you locate some key circuits. For example, the neutral safety switch circuits come bundled with the INTERIOR section of the wiring for floor shifter-mounted switches. If you need to route these circuits to a transmission-mounted switch, you pull them out of the INTERIOR section and re-bundle them to the ENGINE section. Just need to do the installation along with the book, page by page.

Hope this info can help someone.

 

[67Dart273]

OK so have you actually checked coil voltage to make certain you do have it right?

Cranking, coil+ should be nearly exactly same as battery voltage when cranking

Running, coil+ should be somewhat lower. With battery charging at say, 14V, coil + should run maybe 10-11V. If you are checking with key "in run" and engine stopped, and battery at 12--12.5, coil+ should be maybe, 6-9V