General Disarray
Well-Known Member
Personally, I don't care what car appeals to what person, as long as they like it, take care of it, and enjoy the car hobby.
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impact of modern muscle cars on the old car market
- Thread starter barbee6043
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Personally, I don't care what car appeals to what person, as long as they like it, take care of it, and enjoy the car hobby.
Having owned both and being a "young" guy (at least I hope I can still call myself that at 31) I don't think modern muscle is impacting old muscle. I've had a 71 Duster, 69 Dart, 70 Cuda, and now my 68 Dart. For new "muscle" I've had over a dozen twin turbo Dodge Stealths, Dakota RT, and a 300C SRT8. None of them gave me the feeling that my old musclecars give me. Plus as an added bonus I get compliments all the time in my old cars and rarely get noticed in my newer muscle. As a daily driver I enjoy a modern musclecar but going to a show with one is just boring imo.
moper
Well-Known Member
The real enthusiasts of the muscle car era vehicles are fading away with little fresh blood to replace them. Most people that grew up with strut front ends, ABS, Blue Tooth, and plug-and-play performance do not want the clunker/manual everything old cars. Least that's what I've seen. Nobody wants to learn how to maintain and care for these cars, they want something that pretty much needs oil changes and will run perfectly regardless of weather or fuel. It's a dying market IMO. Just normal evolution...lol.
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Yep, until all that **** breaks and costs em money.
SLOPAR72
Well-Known Member
And they are OK with it. They like all the technology and realize that technology cost money. In a full circle moment the techno guys into cars expect the same in their paycheck for their respective careers. It sounds crazy but for my industry we have alot of propeller heads as I call them on the carpet and they are eat up with it lol...
JW
No doubt the most of the younger generation are all about technology, comfort, having someone do the work, I see many here out of HS and making darn good money. With a degree many are starting out making $50000, so why not indulge in a new modern COOL car. Or buy a used Challenger just out of warranty and if something breaks take it to the dealer's shop at $80 per hour!?
Keystone
Well-Known Member
Regarding what the kids/younger generation thinks is cool... Who Cares! I know for a fact the stuff I liked in my late teens and through my 20's is NOT the stuff I like now. Your tastes evolve as you grow up and you also learn some life lessons along the way. One big one I learned was planned obsolescence.
I did the modern muscle thing a few years back. I bought a 2005 Mustang that I really loved and had a blast modding and driving, but then they came out with the 2011 with the new 5 liter, and of course I had to have it. I should have put the '05 back to stock and sold all the go-fast parts, but I didn't. And in the end I actually didn't like the newer one any better, even though it was clearly faster. I sold it before I bought my current house and I decided I wasn't going to get tricked into thinking I need to have the newest "bestest" thing anymore. I pissed away quite a bit of money on new cars, and in the end it's only money, but I'm definitely done playing that game.
I think that's one of the big appeals of the old cars. You fix one up the way you like it and then you have something unique that you won't be enticed into trading to get the new styling, engine, or whatever. Would I like a 6.4 liter Challenger? Absolutely. Am I going to be buying one anytime soon? Absolutely not. Now a modern Hemi in an old A-body... that's what I think is cool nowadays.
I did the modern muscle thing a few years back. I bought a 2005 Mustang that I really loved and had a blast modding and driving, but then they came out with the 2011 with the new 5 liter, and of course I had to have it. I should have put the '05 back to stock and sold all the go-fast parts, but I didn't. And in the end I actually didn't like the newer one any better, even though it was clearly faster. I sold it before I bought my current house and I decided I wasn't going to get tricked into thinking I need to have the newest "bestest" thing anymore. I pissed away quite a bit of money on new cars, and in the end it's only money, but I'm definitely done playing that game.
I think that's one of the big appeals of the old cars. You fix one up the way you like it and then you have something unique that you won't be enticed into trading to get the new styling, engine, or whatever. Would I like a 6.4 liter Challenger? Absolutely. Am I going to be buying one anytime soon? Absolutely not. Now a modern Hemi in an old A-body... that's what I think is cool nowadays.
Dartswinger70
Well-Known Member
What I have noticed getting older is that if I cant do something right, I dont do it. I am restoring my Dart, but am not rushing it, it has to be dne once and done right because I am not going back over it twice. It is a combination of time, priorities, and that I am not young any more. That being said, it would be nice to buy a new Mustang, Challenger, Camaro, or whatever new muscle I may like and just drive it instead of work on it. Come to think of it Porsche 911???
A week ago I went to look (for someone else) at a numbers matching '69 Charger R/T, 108,000-mile 440-4bbl/727, badly faded original Go Mango exterior paint, black vinyl top had been removed to show no rust underneath (all the top trim stored in the trunk), burnt orange interior. Well-optioned car checked out to the fender tag. No body rust, a couple of minor dents in front and rear valence and foggy chrome. Torn interior needs a lot of work but no rust. Original SoCal car. Last time it was registered was 1990 - been in garage hibernation for 28 years.
The east coast buyer wanted to make sure it was actually numbers matching and rust free before he sent $42,500 to the seller and had an enclosed transport haul it cross-country.
340dartley
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Newer muscle is making the mid priced older muscle harder to sell. High end hemi and 440 6bbl cars are not effected as much because guys who buy those cars are not in the market for modern muscle. The competition comes from the guy who wants to drive his hot rod daily and is asking himself should I buy a 30000 383 Roadrunner or 2015 Challenger RT. Challenger does just about everything better, parts are plentiful, and financing available. Unless you are just wanting an old car the answer is clear.
Today’s youth never had to drive cars made in the 80s. The junk coming out of Detroit in the 80s is a big reason the Muscle cars of the 60s and early 70s became popular.
The one thing classic cars of the 60s and 70s have over the newer cars is ease of modifications.
Today’s youth never had to drive cars made in the 80s. The junk coming out of Detroit in the 80s is a big reason the Muscle cars of the 60s and early 70s became popular.
The one thing classic cars of the 60s and 70s have over the newer cars is ease of modifications.
Our Inland Mopars Car Club (SoCal) had our 18th annual charity-benefit all-Mopar car show a couple of weeks ago. Modern muscle made up close to 30% of the entries.
Our show this year had 37 classes, 6 of those were for modern LX/LC-platform Mopars.
We realized several years ago that we needed to include the modern cars because of their numbers. While we continued to judge the older Mopars as we always have, this year we made the decision to have the modern entries be participant-judged from only other modern entries since we realized the judging criteria is different between the older Mopars and the modern muscle.
And our Best of Show proved to be the oldest Mopar entered - but we couldn't find anything to fault it on...
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I agree with the above. I think one big thing that has made our A bodies so popular, and not just the lower cost to get into, is the fact so many A's were born slant and 318, sure there were many 340's cars, and some factory big blocks, 67-9,..... but compared to say B bodies, tons of A are still found ripe for resto or modifying, owners choice. The SB and slant B bodies are not near so plentiful, and they will demand more $ for the guy wanting to build the clone. I have owned many 68- 9 rodrunners/bees, and I have had the hots for another quite a while. But I refuse to give $3-4-5000 for a true 69 383 runner, project that need everything just to finish it and tell myself, because it was born a 383 69 runner, it is worth $25-30000 to someone. Not building it to sell, I just soon give $1000 for the same turd that was born a satellite! and go from there!!!!! LOL
That satellite I would build to RR specs, finished would bring probably half what the real deal would bring.. So being that I have NO ego and would be happy with the " wanna be" runner, that would be my route.
Prices and what people think about the subject is interesting to me. But being I am not buying, selling... just have my own "toys" it is a mute point. I pay what I think a project car is worth (to me) and if I don't find one for that I do not buy. But the subject of what is it worth? is still interesting.
We tend to see so little "sales results" on this site, FB or whatever to get a good handle on what is something worth. example: I have a neighbor that has a 72 400 charger for sale at $4500, Not restored, all there, decent car and driver.... I figure it is worth $2500, if it sells and he tells me what he really got, not BS, then I have one sale to go by. But one sale does not make the market!!
340dartley
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The ability to clone our high priced muscle cars is another plus for The old cars. It is much easier to take a 318 or slant six car and change it to 340/360 or big block. Not as easy to take a 3.5 out of a 2010 charger and slide in a hemi.
Back when the first clones appeared, I first noticed them as selling at BJ, (never been there in person) I asked myself WHY!!!????? This was way back in what late 90's?? Back then I could find a complete 383 4 speed 68-70 Runner, or Bee project, for $1000-1500. OK so that was Missouri not the high $ part of the US! BUTtttt, So why would anyone build a clone to obviously flip at BJ back then !?????
Dartswinger70
Well-Known Member
Yes, but not impossile either. Any drivetrain swap is possible just takes $$$ and motivation
Dartswinger70
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I am in the Northeast, and I see complete driving 273 Satellites and Belvederes going for $ 5 grand. If it is a rusting hulk Super Bee, Charger or Roadrunner, $ 8 -10 Grand. I agree, and would pay for the 68 Belvedere that was garage kept and had the modest drivetrain, meaning it wasn' beat to death, and use that for a clone platform before I would replace the floors, trunk and body sheet metal on a 383 road runner that was blown up and left to sit in the backyard in the mid eighties, and has since rusted out completely.
Pretty much, most of the projects that are left are the cars that have been parted, picked over, and left outside to rot. The good part of our part of the country Texas) is NO salt, and in some parts, drier air. Bad is areas of more humid air, and cars left under trees! We are in a much lower populated area than back East and Chevy ruled here not Moper! back in the day. Stupid is the 68-70 Charger prices IMHO. I have had more than a few decades ago, upscale nice cars, heavier, a ***** to weld all the rear (5) layer back panels. Why they are so in demands now I don't understand. People want to be John Schneider look a likes!??? Yes pretty cars. But!!!
66-7 B bodies have never brought the $$, and bad repop panels does not help. All 68- 70 B bodies rusted bad in floors, trunk floors, truck extensions, quarters, below back windows... Hard to find a solid car, better chance at a satellite than the beat on roadrunner! Even those projects are overpriced majority of the time, BECAUSE, as done they bring half what a real car brings.
66-7 B bodies have never brought the $$, and bad repop panels does not help. All 68- 70 B bodies rusted bad in floors, trunk floors, truck extensions, quarters, below back windows... Hard to find a solid car, better chance at a satellite than the beat on roadrunner! Even those projects are overpriced majority of the time, BECAUSE, as done they bring half what a real car brings.
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Only difference was when i bought my special ordered 2007 mustang GT new and fixed it up the way i wanted it, i kept it. Didnt care about the newer 5.0 also thought they ruined the look of the body after 2009. And ruined it even more so with the new body style with the "catfish" looking front end. I shoulda waited for the 2009 bullitt edition, but didnt. Oh well. Like the 1994 silverado i special ordered, bought new, and still have, and my 67 cuda i am restoring, my mustang wont ever get sold.
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
I dont care i still love 68-70 B bodies. RRs and Chargers. If i could luckily score one today, i would.
I went through so many cars and motocycles after I turned 16 in 1971. I would be ready to just about give away what I currently owned so I could buy the next hot vehicle. Then I read in a motorcycle magazine something that got me out of this: "You can't keep up with the factories."
famous bob
mopar misfit
YOU LEFT OUT LOOKS, only a few have really good looks.
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
I'd take 1969 Plymouth Road Runner for $30k Alex.
Then buy a gas sipping **** box with working A/C as a daily driver.
Actually doing that now. Got a 2008 chevy HHR 2.2 ecotec with 5 speed manual. Bought it new for $13,800, 10 years later and 107K on the clock, i think i got my moneys worth. Nothing major ever broke. Tires, oil changes, and a new battery. Ignition lock tumbler broke under warranty. Thats it. Heck the stock front brake pads are at a bit over half life at 107K . I will replace with genuine GM since the oem ones lasted so long lol. Now its a game to see how far it will go before its shot. Maybe another 10 years and another 100k. I see these on used car lots for $4500 now. Ugly as sin, but great little car.
Some people may want to drive their vintage cars daily, but thats a dumb move in my opinion. People are generally dicks and envious of stuff like that. And to leave it sitting in a parking lot envites trouble, because people cant keep their dick beaters to themselves. Plus you get the assholes that text while driving and dont watch whats going on around them. Every time i see a new camaro, mustang or challenger in the walmart parking lot its always got a big ole door ding hicky or a few in it. I dont know why somebody would subject their classics to **** like that. I have an assigned parking in a secured area at the airport where i work. Same people park next to me every day in their assigned spots. I still wont take my 2007 mustang GT to work, or leave it in a parking lot. Call me paranoid, but it has no parking lot hickies or scratches from envious fuckers in it.
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abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
I see tons of people on various boards selling off their old stuff to get into modern muscle. At some point guys get older and either can’t or don’t feel like doing constant upkeep or they are just afraid to drive the old cars or leave them in s parking lot somewhere. Theres many other reasons guys get out of their old muscle too.
Want to see how modern muscle effects the market just go to Chrysler’s at carlisle. They are breaking attendance records every year and it’s not more old cars showing up. It’s tons of modern muscle showing up.
Kinda hard to justify messing with these old rust buckets with modern muscle sitting right there that out performs most of the old stuff in every imaginable way. And that modern muscle is cheaper in many cases, has a warranty, creature comforts and performance out the ***.
Personally I’d love to sell out and pick up a new/newer mustang. Hell new Camaro has been catching my eye lately too.
Want to see how modern muscle effects the market just go to Chrysler’s at carlisle. They are breaking attendance records every year and it’s not more old cars showing up. It’s tons of modern muscle showing up.
Kinda hard to justify messing with these old rust buckets with modern muscle sitting right there that out performs most of the old stuff in every imaginable way. And that modern muscle is cheaper in many cases, has a warranty, creature comforts and performance out the ***.
Personally I’d love to sell out and pick up a new/newer mustang. Hell new Camaro has been catching my eye lately too.
Sad but very true.
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
For reasons above mentioned is why i have my 07 GT, and my 67 notchback. I like the old and the new. Both for different reasons. I like my GT because its quick, and has the creature comforts, like A/C and cruise control. Gives me the feel of owning a 67 fastback. Dare i say it, i feel like Steve McQueen when i slide behind the wheel. But i cant wait till i have my 67 done, because i loved owning this old stuff back in the 80s, and 90s. The simplicity of it, and the styling. I like both for different reasons, and some of the same.
I have this 69 cuda notch i been rat packing parts for as a future project with my son. He loves cars, and i have a lot to teach him. I will talk with him about just getting a newer car as a daily driver. Maybe a used modern challenger or mustang, and the keep the 69 cuda as a fun car.
I have this 69 cuda notch i been rat packing parts for as a future project with my son. He loves cars, and i have a lot to teach him. I will talk with him about just getting a newer car as a daily driver. Maybe a used modern challenger or mustang, and the keep the 69 cuda as a fun car.
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