Increase in Ethanol?

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mistreta

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Did not know where to place this topic, let me know if it is not.
This was brought up at a car gathering. Talk got around to E-85 and how it could cause problems if used in classic and muscle cars. I know most use premium gas, in Michigan almost all gas has 10% ethanol, not enough to cause concern. There is talk of increase of ethanol in all gas without letting the public know, show it on the pump. Is anybody out there using an additive to there gas to make sure they have no issues. I have a 4 stroke outboard motor on a pontoon boat that requires an ethanol additive. The boat dealer said it's hard on the outboard motors, the boat also have a water separator. I burn premium in My 408 small block, no issues so far and I want to keep it that way. I've heard the additive used for outboards is not the answer for cars.

Tony In Mi
 
10% jokenol IS a problem if you get any water in the fuel. I thought the bastards in congress passed a law allowing 15% to be stuffed into the gas we buy. The jokenol is a disaster for small engines and dirt bikes. Get any water in the gas and the water will attract the corn liquor and the resulting "jokenol water" is extremely corrosive to aluminum and copper (brass jsts). Good news is the pump equipment at the gas stations cannot last with the 15% blend. I don't know what they do with E85.
 
Last summer out of the blue my snow blower started leaking gas. Upon examination I noticed the rubber fuel hose was rotten. This unit is about 9 years old. When I went to the OPE dealer for the part he told me that ethanol was the cause. It seems it rots out the hoses. He sold me a new hose and additive.
 
pacuda59 said:
Last summer out of the blue my snow blower started leaking gas. Upon examination I noticed the rubber fuel hose was rotten. This unit is about 9 years old. When I went to the OPE dealer for the part he told me that ethanol was the cause. It seems it rots out the hoses. He sold me a new hose and additive.
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Same thing happened with my string trimmer - even after pump gas mixed with oil since it's a 2-cycle engine. I took it to the shop when it refused to start. They pulled the fuel tank and showed me where the fuel tube had simply rotted and fallen off.
 
yup. 10% is BS. In CT I can fill at different stations and smell the difference, and my Neon can gain or lose 2mpg depending only on the location I fill at. I now will only use Mobil or Shell. Any of the smaller places, citgos, Valaro, BP, whatever is all trash. It's eaten the fuel system in my tractor and killed a lawn mower. I'm now using older stuff that I can manually tune the mixtures on and it's ok. I'm positive there are some places at 15% already.
 
:blob::blob:Florida just passed a law that gas stations can sell pure gas according to SEMA. Wait to see if any do. There are a few but none close to me and you have to open account with them.
 
mistreta said:
Did not know where to place this topic, let me know if it is not.
This was brought up at a car gathering. Talk got around to E-85 and how it could cause problems if used in classic and muscle cars. I know most use premium gas, in Michigan almost all gas has 10% ethanol, not enough to cause concern. There is talk of increase of ethanol in all gas without letting the public know, show it on the pump. Is anybody out there using an additive to there gas to make sure they have no issues. I have a 4 stroke outboard motor on a pontoon boat that requires an ethanol additive. The boat dealer said it's hard on the outboard motors, the boat also have a water separator. I burn premium in My 408 small block, no issues so far and I want to keep it that way. I've heard the additive used for outboards is not the answer for cars.

Tony In Mi
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E85 is 85% ethanol...15% gas...

E15 is 15% ethanol...85% gas......EPA is pushing E15......
 
Here is a list of ethanol free gas stations for the US and Canada. I can definitely tell a difference between ethanol free and 10%. http://pure-gas.org/
 
Oh, the government would not do anything without telling us.....


No, not our government....
 
At least I finally saw an anti-ethanol ad on TV. This stuff has been around too long already. It is just a stupid idea to take all the land, water, and energy required to make FOOD and then turn it into fuel. You know what makes a good fuel? Coal, oil, and natural gas, there are 100's of years of that stuff left and thanks to all the restrictions on us getting to our own supplies we have more then enough still right here.

One of the worst victims of the ethanol are Seadoo PWCs and Skidoo snowmachines. the fuel lines they used would break down internally, gum up the carb screens, lean the motor out, and melt pistons. No signs of any problems up until it's all over. If buying a used Seadoo look for the grey fuel lines, if it has them it's either dead already or hasn't been run in years.
 
ethanol screws up every thing you own. Run your lawn mower and time a tank of eth. Then run it with non-eth marine gas- lasts a lot longer, makes up for the extra $ a gallon, AND doesn't hurt your engine. The inboard/outboard guys were first to figure this out. (I had one too).
 
I only burn the Chevron 94 in my stroker - no ethanol , except when I'm travelling cross country then it's either Shell or Esso supreme they are hit and miss for pure gas but at least they are low content if they are not pure , and yes it is a scam the mileage goes down by exactly the same percentage as the content so where is the savings ?
 
FWIW: Ethanol dissolves in water, gasoline does not. No wonder ethanol laced gasoline has problems. Condensation in the fuel tank mixes with the ethanol to produce a non-flammable compound. This is more of a problem for engines that are not run often.
 
2 Darts said:
FWIW: Ethanol dissolves in water, gasoline does not. No wonder ethanol laced gasoline has problems. Condensation in the fuel tank mixes with the ethanol to produce a non-flammable compound. This is more of a problem for engines that are not run often.
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Lucas has an additive for ethanol. Supposed to be safe and take care of the problems e-85, e-15 and e-10 if it happens. Anybody use it?
 
It took about 2 weeks for the 10% ethanol gas to turn the fuel hoses in my 72 Dart to jelly. They were literally like gummy bears. Replaced with fuel injector line, good to go. We cannot get ethanol-free gas in the county I live in, but if I could, I would. They have it up state a little (Appleton area) so when I'm up there, I'm going to get some real gas.
 
72Dodge said:
It took about 2 weeks for the 10% ethanol gas to turn the fuel hoses in my 72 Dart to jelly. They were literally like gummy bears. Replaced with fuel injector line, good to go. We cannot get ethanol-free gas in the county I live in, but if I could, I would. They have it up state a little (Appleton area) so when I'm up there, I'm going to get some real gas.
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obuma`s bunch started pushing this along w/ the tree huggers
and green weenies. the congress bucked up and shot it down, because even a lot of the new cars are not built for it, and all of the older cars and trucks aren`t. just for your information:protest:
 
I had ruined two fuel pumps on my Ditchwitch and several other pieces of equipment had the fuel lines deteriorated before I realized it was the ethanol in the gas. Luckily we have 11 stations here that still sell pure gas.
 
lotta ethanol talk round the dirt tracks...specially in the "crate motor" circles,they say if you gonna run it you need to change to alcohol type pumps an lines an use a e-85 prepped carb or you'll have issues,..an you gotta get a test kit an check how much alcohol is in each batch you get an correct the percentages or re-tune accordingly or there will be issues as in burnt pistons,..an care must be taking if storing any as the alcohol will assorb water,..but if attention to details are followed theres a lil better power curve to be found an will run lot cooler,...one thing i noticed at the track,..the e-85 carbs will be covered in condensation after they run....im sticking with sunoco blue 114 in mine...
 
Go get a test tube, put 1/2" of gas in it, mark the level; put water in it, shake the crap out of it. If the gas level rises after 20 minutes, figure out the ratio. The eath absorbs water.
 
I looked at the list of pure gasoline stations in Texas. There was one Exxon station in the list. The rest were non-top tier or even unbranded gasoline. Is there some rogue refinery out there producing pure gas? Not quite.

What I understand is that there are a couple of SAE gasoline specifications intended for motor vehicle dispensing that are distributed via pipeline from the refineries. Neither of these contain ethanol. Ethanol is introduced at the local terminal as part of the additive package delivered to the retailer. This is how we get some gasoline with ethanol and some without. (Hint ethanol "oxygenates" gasoline). This means that virtually all top-tier gasolines contain ethanol. This is the best, most easily understood presentation of the compounds that make up gasoline that I've seen.

http://www.ask.com/wiki/List_of_gasoline_additives

It seems that a recent SAE symposium on fuels is trying to hold the line of one fuel for the legacy fleet (us in the old car business/hobby) at E10. Eventually, gasoline is going to wind up at E20-E50 for the rest of the country. There may still be E85 as a niche market solution.

One of the interesting notes I read was that a 5 point rise in octane raises greenhouse emissions by 15%. It seems that higher octane gasoline needs more refining steps, so the cost difference is not all marketing hype as some have groused.
 
You know what is funny about non-top tier and unbranded gasoline here? It is delivered on the same truck as the name brand gas. What is even funnier is that same truck drops fuel at several branded stations because the stations are under the same ownership.

When I owned my mattress company right across from one of their stores they changed brands but the same truck was delivering the fuel so I asked the store manager what was up with that? I was told it was strictly about branded credit cards. Was that accurate? I have no idea but the same truck delivers to all their branded and unbranded stations.


Here is just one example........

"Valero is also one of the United States' largest retail operators with approximately 6,800 retail and branded wholesale outlets in the United States, Canada, United Kingdom, and the Caribbean under the Valero, Diamond Shamrock, Shamrock, Ultramar, Beacon, and Texaco brands."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valero_Energy_Corporation
 
Gas when produced, whether Exxon, conoco, etc... Is all the same. Only the octane rating changes. It is at the terminal where they add the additives, cleaners and solvents, that make it top tier. Tis is also where they add ethanol which is usually shipped in via rail. They produce the stuff at refinery, ship it via pipeline to a terminal and from the terminal all manner of gas station brands get the same gasoline and add the additive to make it Exxon or what ever. If it wasn't for government subsidies ethanol would be more expensive to produce than gasoline.

I used to deliver bulk fuel. I have even had to add the additive to the gas at the station on a few rare occasions.

A truck is just a carrier of the fuel. They make money on how much is delivered. I delivered for an Exxon distributor, but have delivered unbranded gas and other brands to non Exxon stations.
 
Looks like Country Mark is a good spot for me. The only issue is that its an un-manned station, so credit cards have to be used.
I'm worried about about the fuel lines in my '89 F150. I only drive it when I need to haul something, so it does sit a lot. With 82,000 miles on it, it has a long life ahead of it yet, I hope.
 
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