Inner sactum oil galley plug

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Duane said:
That's not quite how they are drilled. I work for an Oem big three company and sharpen those drills for a living. Step drills are all one drill of two or three different diameters all drilled at one time.
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That is neat to know. I'm curious: Are the edges of the steps angled like on a normal drill bit?
 
Update: A happy ending--I took the block over to my nephew (welder/mechanic) to use some heat on the threaded plug. However, he first insisted on seeing how tight it was by pounding away on it with a hammer and punch and trying to break it loose with pure strength. Sure enough, he was able to break it loose.

I had spent all day yesterday spraying the plug with Liquid Wrench and tapping it lightly with a hammer. My end result was half-rounding off the inside corners of the plug (the plug was not square like the factory plugs--it was 5/16" hex).
 
nm9stheham said:
I think your #1 is correct.

The pressure to both passages to and from the filter would be essentially equal so there is no pressure to push oil through the filter. I suspect it will gradually fill up the filter and passages. The non-filled filter would be a huge air pocket in the system so the oil pressure might well fluctuate until/if the air gets purged out of there.
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The oil filter would merely act as an accumulator till the air purged..
 
inertia said:
The oil filter would merely act as an accumulator till the air purged..
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Okay the oil filter is acting as an accumulator. At idle the oil is shooting basically straight up to the main Passage. At the same time it's backing oil into the oil filter from the line coming out of the oil filter not the line going into the oil filter. Now the engine gets revved, the oil pressure is still going up the passage but we must remember the passage is Step drilled so it is a restriction and the excess oil is being fed through the out line of rhe oil filter, to the oil filter backwards building up pressure in the filter with the air behind it. We then rev the motor, the oil pressure hits the 70-pound marker or the 80 lb mark and the filter is now charged with 80 lb of pressure. We let off the throttle, come to a stop at the stop sign, the oil pressure going up into the motor at this time is trying to maintain about 35 lb of pressure however the accumulator effect of the oil filter is now pushing the oil back out of the filter into the passages and is causing the oil pump to stop sending oil up here. The pump goes into bypass the accumulator finishs dumping off to 35 lb so that the pump can start pumping again into the passages backfilling the accumulator oil filter and pushing oil up through the step drill passage to the top of the motor. We accelerate again the oil pressure builds. The accumulator fills with 70 of pressure. We come to another stop sign or stop light engine RPM drops oil pressure drops. The accumulator starts pushing oil back into the passage the oil pump says too much pressure going to bypass and it goes into bypass until the accumulator and the pump are at an equal pressure again.
Does this make sense or am I just nuts you must remember I am old.
 
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This is really a complex lubrication system and would require oil pressure gauge taps all over the place to figure it out for sure. Certainly would be fun to verify all the theories!
 
From what you are telling me. is. that if I took a garden hose off the tap at the front of my house near where the water supply enters the house, and ran that hose thru an anti back-flow valve and then connect that end to the tap at the back of my house, turn both taps on,
that somehow I'm not gonna have pressure somewhere in my house, is that what you're saying..??
 
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inertia said:
From what you are telling me. is. that if I took a garden hose off the tap at the front of my house near where the water supply enters the house, and ran that hose thru an anti back-flow valve and then connect that end to the tap at the back of my house, that somehow I'm not gonna have pressure somewhere in my house, is that what you're saying..??
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No, that is not what I am saying because you don't have a space in the line in your house that is charged with air to backup pressure.
And if you did when you turn off the water supply out at the street the accumulator will then push the water out and you will still have running water until the accumulator is drained.
People that have wells at their house or their Farms understand what happens if the pumps not running but you still have water in that pressure tank.
 
Jadaharabi said:
No, that is not what I am saying because you don't have a space in the line in your house that is charged with air to backup pressure.
And if you did when you turn off the water supply out at the street the accumulator will then push the water out and you will still have running water until the accumulator is drained.
People that have wells at their house or their Farms understand what happens if the pumps not running but you still have water in that pressure tank.
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Most houses infact do have accumulators, in the form of a plugged upright pipes located close to washing machines and showers.. An accumulator is merely a "hydraulic spring" to modulate or extend pressure, and the oil filter would purge in just a few seconds, because of the valve, ... cheers..
 
inertia said:
Most houses infact do have accumulators, in the form of a plugged upright pipes located close to washing machines and showers.. An accumulator is merely a "hydraulic spring" to modulate or extend pressure, and the oil filter would puge in just a few seconds, because of the valve... cheers..
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That little piece of pipe sticking straight up is a air accumulator to stop your pipes from rattling it is not to store water in. When I talk about a pressure tank on a pump system it holds water to feed your house or your barn or whatever. It is an accumulator or pressure tank. That is the effect the oil filter is having on the oiling system.
 
nm9stheham said:
That is neat to know. I'm curious: Are the edges of the steps angled like on a normal drill bit?
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Very close. A regular drill point is a 118 point angle. The steps are usually 90 degree point angle but not always. Depends what the engineers require.
 
Jadaharabi said:
If you're talking about the plug between the two lines. If that plug is missing the oil circles back to the filter and so therefore it does not want to follow the main Galley and lubricate everything and build pressure the way that it
should. It just basically circles the pressure between the path of least resistance which in this case is back to the filter because the passage above it is more restricted it backs up makes a little pressure then the oil goes back to the filter back to the pump making a circle so in effect it is just rolling around in those passages.
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Ok Marcohotrod what part do you disagree with?
 
toolmanmike said:
Yes. I used to work in a manufacturing machine shop. You can only drill so far in with a drill and limited to the stroke of the machine and the length of the drill bit. Here comes the step drill procedure. The first hole is say 3/8, then you drill a couple inches further with a 5/16 and then a couple more inches with a 1/4. The last (larger) hole also gives the shavings space to exit the hole.
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What do you disagree with in my post.
 
Duane said:
That's not quite how they are drilled. I work for an Oem big three company and sharpen those drills for a living. Step drills are all one drill of two or three different diameters all drilled at one time.
Multiple redrills of the same hole would cost way too much and take too much manufacturing time.
Step drilled holes are a compromise to reduce cost and not to oil your engine better.
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Well, I should delete my post because what I said obviously doesn't apply to engine manufacturing. At least not by today's manufacturing procedures. Heck, back when I was operating the automatic screw machines we still used braised carbide tooling. As far as I know the blocks were step drilled the same way back then.
 
toolmanmike said:
Well, I should delete my post because what I said obviously doesn't apply to engine manufacturing. At least not by today's manufacturing procedures. Heck, back when I was operating the automatic screw machines we still used braised carbide tooling. As far as I know the blocks were step drilled the same way back then.
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I,ve been a tool and cutter grinder for 29 years. We used to use brazed carbide step drills too. Now it is all indexable throw away.
But the process has always been step drill. As you said at least in the auto industry. I cannot speak for other industries. We have drills that are probably 18 long to drill the oil galleys for your lifter bores all drilled in one shot. These bean counters look for any way possible to reduce cycle time. Sorry I was not trying to dis you, just trying to share info. I sharpen probably 50-100 step drills a week an dreamers too.
 
I was thinking that with no plug there would be no "pressure drop" from the flow restriction of the filter (as noted it would shoot straight up to the gauge) & it will be slightly higher . it might only be a small psi difference but by the nature of the beast it has to be something for it (a filter) to function. Yes I've seen it in Ma's literature that leaveing it out will cause a pressure reduction & I did think Ma was referring to that specific plug but I think that is a typo & that if the other/seperate rear gallery 3/8 NPT pipe plug on the inside by the intergear is left out you WILL have a pressure problem.
 
Okay I have gone back to 1979 Dodge Sportsman Plymouth Voyager Vans and front suspension chassis book service manual, page 9 - 49 and figure 53 it says that if this plug is not replaced that it will cause erratic, low or no oil pressure.
Then I went to my 1988 Dakota service manual page 9.34 oil line plug figure 57 is on page 9.31 it says the oil plug in the location in the vertical passage in the block between the oil to filter and the oil from filter Passage. Missinstallation or absence could cause erratic, low or no oil pressure.
I have also seen this very same thing said in the how to build big inch small block Mopars so I truly do not believe that it was a misprint from Ma Mopar. Sorry boys and girls that just don't fly. Thank you very much for your time and interest.
 
Jadaharabi said:
Okay I have gone back to 1979 Dodge Sportsman Plymouth Voyager Vans and front suspension chassis book service manual, page 9 - 49 and figure 53 it says that if this plug is not replaced that it will cause erratic, low or no oil pressure.
Then I went to my 1988 Dakota service manual page 9.34 oil line plug figure 57 is on page 9.31 it says the oil plug in the location in the vertical passage in the block between the oil to filter and the oil from filter Passage. Missinstallation or absence could cause erratic, low or no oil pressure.
I have also seen this very same thing said in the how to build big inch small block Mopars so I truly do not believe that it was a misprint from Ma Mopar. Sorry boys and girls that just don't fly. Thank you very much for your time and interest.
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What are we discussing here? Take out the screw in plug, clean the block for assembly and screw the plug back in. If the plug is in like it was when it left the factory there won't be a oil pressure loss and if you leave any plug out of the oil galley system you will have a pressure loss. That doesn't come into play here because we are going to screw the plug back in aren't we!
 
toolmanmike said:
What are we discussing here? Take out the screw in plug, clean the block for assembly and screw the plug back in. If the plug is in like it was when it left the factory there won't be a oil pressure loss and if you leave any plug out of the oil galley system you will have a pressure loss. That doesn't come into play here because we are going to screw the plug back in aren't we!
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We are not discussing the screw in plugs. We are discussing the plug that goes between, the line to the oil filter and from the oil filter that is in the vertical passage underneath the oil sending unit, it is a press in plug.

As for the Guitar Jones Oil passage modifications I use part of them because I rev the crap out of my Motors. So yes some of that is a modification for Street Motors.

Using the recording part of this sometimes throws words in that weren't necessarily in my paragraphs please bear with. I try to edit the imperfections from this.
 
Jadaharabi said:
We are not discussing the screw in plugs. We are discussing the plug that goes between, the line to the oil filter and from the oil filter that is in the vertical passage underneath the oil sending unit, it is a press in plug.

As for the Guitar Jones Oil passage modifications I use part of them because I rev the crap out of my Motors. So yes some of that is a modification for Street Motors.

Using the recording part of this sometimes throws words in that weren't necessarily in my paragraphs please bear with. I try to edit the imperfections from this.
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These threads are hard to keep up with unless I back-read a couple pages. The threads change directions with a simple question and I really don't have the time or patience to follow closely. I need to not respond even to help. Just gets me into trouble.
 
toolmanmike said:
These threads are hard to keep up with unless I back-read a couple pages. The threads change directions with a simple question and I really don't have the time or patience to follow closely. I need to not respond even to help. Just gets me into trouble.
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We need your response so don't quit on us. Lot of it keeps me on my toes because I have to go back and see what's being said also. I'm not trying to be aggressive or to cause anybody any grief just trying to get things straightened out when it comes to this plug beneath the sending unit and what happens when it's left out. So appreciate your input.
 
Jadaharabi said:
We need your response so don't quit on us. Lot of it keeps me on my toes because I have to go back and see what's being said also. I'm not trying to be aggressive or to cause anybody any grief just trying to get things straightened out when it comes to this plug beneath the sending unit and what happens when it's left out. So appreciate your input.
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When the plug under the main cap is left out it doesn't send all the oil out to the filter. I usually don't take that one out as you can get to both sides of it.

The threaded plug that is at the end of the drivers side lifter gallery should come out so you can get it clean. If you forget to install it you'll have very low or no oil pressure.
 
yellow rose said:
When the plug under the main cap is left out it doesn't send all the oil out to the filter. I usually don't take that one out as you can get to both sides of it.

I agree, but I usually take it out in order to enlarge the passage above it where it bottlenecks underneath the sending unit.


The threaded plug that is at the end of the drivers side lifter gallery should come out so you can get it clean. If you forget to install it you'll have very low or no oil pressure.
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And they are a pain to replace with the engine in the car.
 
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