Is 426ci 360 a small block?

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Well didn't I tell you this was going to be a failure? Look at this mess! Should be one heck of a nasty looking paint job.

.........................................Tape job from hell................................


Donny B. Rebuild 017.jpg

How-eh-vher, it did have 70 psi oil pressure during the prelube and we are getting good oil to the Chevy stuff under the valve covers from the MRL solid roller lifters hugging the camshaft.

We turned the #2 & #4 cam bearings so no oil goes up the block and head holes to the rocker shaft stands.

Dyno by Friday.
 
I apologize if i missed it ... but what block are you using for the foundation..... and a BIG THANKS to take the time and show us a comparison between cylinder heads ....NOT very many builders do this ... I am interested to see how the BPE's perform.
 
ScampMike said:
zoinks - you used regular masking tape!? :eek:
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I'm an irregular guy. I thought it might level me out and bring me back to the regular side.


rrvolare said:
I apologize if i missed it ... but what block are you using for the foundation..... and a BIG THANKS to take the time and show us a comparison between cylinder heads ....NOT very many builders do this ... I am interested to see how the BPE's perform.
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I had to look again at the block casting date. It is a stock 360 block from April 1st 1978. I'd be a fool not to use it, as it sonic checked .176"-.230" on the major thrust side. And no, it is not an April Fools Joke.

I think there may be some confusion here. I'm checking the difference between the old ported ProComp/RaceMaster aluminum heads and the ported Indy LAX heads. My thought was, I would go to the BPE heads before I ever modified the LAX heads beyond what we have already done to them. I have no intentions to get the BPE heads at this time, but they would be my first choice in the future.

Now Ironmike is going to go with the BPE heads in his thread 'Missed on this combo?'

Missed on this combo?

Can the two engines be compared? I wouldn't do it. You cannot race dynos or flowbenches!
 
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IQ52 said:
And besides, nothing in my contract says, "The engine builder must know how, or what to, tape."
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just don't leave that on there for long - that regular masking tape is a royal PITA to get off and if left too long it'll leave it's stickiness behind - shoulda used this stuff - painters tape
Blue-painters-tape-rolls-700x550.png
 
Warm it up, one pull. 75 psi oil pressure at 5,100 rpm, I guess that ought be enough. 465 lb-ft @ 3,000 rpm. Shut it off at 5,100 rpm and 526 HP.
 
Ottmundr said:
Hey now! Dontchoo be Makin fun of my Gremlin-driving-days! I GREMLINIZED plenty of 5.0 fox bodies!
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I LOVE Early Gremlins. I still look for one to this day.
 
Every calculation said the cross section would choke the engine around 6,200 rpm.

And Guess What?

Tried different tunes on different dyno runs starting at 3,000 rpm on each pull and the most it ever made at 3,000 rpm was 481 lb-ft. Best peak torque was 572 lb-ft @ 4,800 rpm. The best peak horsepower was 603 HP @ 6,300 rpm. I have at least a dozen pulls that it made 600-603 HP somewhere between 6,000-6,300 rpm and was still around 590-594 HP @ 6,600 rpm. It will pull 500+ lb-ft from 4,100-6,300 rpm.

I guess the iron heads aren't doing too bad.

Oh, somebody will ask........10.83:1 compression, 91 octane from the Stinker Station, 165 psi cranking compression at 5,000' elevation.
 
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IQ52 said:
Every calculation said the cross section would choke the engine around 6,200 rpm.

And Guess What?

Tried different tunes on different dyno runs starting at 3,000 rpm on each pull and the most it ever made at 3,000 rpm was 481 lb-ft. Best peak torque was 572 lb-ft @ 4,800 rpm. The best peak horsepower was 603 HP @ 6,300 rpm. I have at least a dozen pulls that it made 600-603 HP somewhere between 6,000-6,300 rpm and was still around 590-594 HP @ 6,600 rpm. It will pull 500+ lb-ft from 4,100-6,300 rpm.

I guess the iron heads aren't doing too bad.

Oh, somebody will ask........10.83:1 compression, 91 octane from the Stinker Station, 165 psi cranking compression at 5,000' elevation.
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Love me some well executed iron. I'd say the calculations were bang on and right inline with my own results. Would love to see some more pics of the port work--hint hint. Fantastic results Jim especially with the power hanging on so well, I've witnessed the same thing but I only reached 417ci/ 580 HP @ 6100-6200 rpm. J.Rob
 
ScampMike said:
just don't leave that on there for long - that regular masking tape is a royal PITA to get off and if left too long it'll leave it's stickiness behind - shoulda used this stuff - painters tape
Blue-painters-tape-rolls-700x550.png
Click to expand...
I've got a day's pulls on the dyno, can I pull the masking tape off now?
 
My data logger, Cody holding the timing light on the damper during a run yesterday, say's, Dad, we got a problem."

Hello Houston?

This distributor is set for 24 degrees @ idle and full mechanical before 3,000 rpm, and it is only 26 degrees all the way to about 4,000 rpm where it begins to advance to a total of 31 degrees.

Hmmm? What if? Where is the glitch? Intermediate shaft to distributor, something catching in the distributor weights, the inexpensive ignition box from Summit? If nothing else I will lock the distributor mechanical advance out and just start at 31 degrees to see what happens the next time it goes on the dyno.

Back on the dyno?

Welllll, we have a small oil leak around the back of the pan. Oil pan or rear main? So, it is coming off the dyno and going back into the assembly room. And besides, this engine has no windage tray or crank scrapper of any kind right now. It will.

We've checked the valve lash and it is holding rock steady, but done no changes to see what effect they have. We will.

In the budget are 1.6 rockers. We'll see.

What can this engine do before it gets to the heads choking it? Inquiring minds.
 
IQ52 said:
My data logger, Cody holding the timing light on the damper during a run yesterday, say's, Dad, we got a problem."

Hello Houston?

This distributor is set for 24 degrees @ idle and full mechanical before 3,000 rpm, and it is only 26 degrees all the way to about 4,000 rpm where it begins to advance to a total of 31 degrees.

Hmmm? What if? Where is the glitch? Intermediate shaft to distributor, something catching in the distributor weights, the inexpensive ignition box from Summit? If nothing else I will lock the distributor mechanical advance out and just start at 31 degrees to see what happens the next time it goes on the dyno.

Back on the dyno?

Welllll, we have a small oil leak around the back of the pan. Oil pan or rear main? So, it is coming off the dyno and going back into the assembly room. And besides, this engine has no windage tray or crank scrapper of any kind right now. It will.

We've checked the valve lash and it is holding rock steady, but done no changes to see what effect they have. We will.

In the budget are 1.6 rockers. We'll see.

What can this engine do before it gets to the heads choking it? Inquiring minds.
Click to expand...

Now this is some honesty. Not every engine I build is a 100% success on the first shot and I do think it's important to share that info also. Sharing info like this reciprocates and helps everybody. Thanks Jim! J.Rob
 
RAMM said:
Love me some well executed iron. I'd say the calculations were bang on and right inline with my own results. Would love to see some more pics of the port work--hint hint. Fantastic results Jim especially with the power hanging on so well, I've witnessed the same thing but I only reached 417ci/ 580 HP @ 6100-6200 rpm. J.Rob
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Jesse, 580 HP from a 417 is nothing to sneeze at. Look at what others are going through trying to get there. But .........you already to know that.

This post is about pictures! I will probably post those LAX photos around the time I post those of the 740+ HP 906 heads I have stashed somewhere's.

So...."Endeavor to persevere." (From the movie, The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976).

Respectfully though, don't count on it. I'm not as open as you.
 
Yeah, and what the heck, we'll try those E3 spark plugs too.
 
IQ52 said:
My data logger, Cody holding the timing light on the damper during a run yesterday, say's, Dad, we got a problem."

Hello Houston?

This distributor is set for 24 degrees @ idle and full mechanical before 3,000 rpm, and it is only 26 degrees all the way to about 4,000 rpm where it begins to advance to a total of 31 degrees.

Hmmm? What if? Where is the glitch? Intermediate shaft to distributor, something catching in the distributor weights, the inexpensive ignition box from Summit? If nothing else I will lock the distributor mechanical advance out and just start at 31 degrees to see what happens the next time it goes on the dyno.
Click to expand...

Who the heck quotes themselves? Ah, me do.

This part all came back to me while I was thinking about Ironmike's struggle and a post by a very intelligent porter and engine builder's speculation about the effect of better low end torque perhaps carrying over to the upper rpm ranges.

These are the torque readings from a typical run on our engine, where the ignition was retarded from where I wanted it to be.

RPM...............TQ
3K.................467..
3.1K..............476......
3.2K..............486..........
3.3K..............496..............
3.4K..............492..................
3.5K..............492......................let's call this 1,000 rpm the dead area
3.6K..............491..................
3.7K..............487..............
3.8K..............483..........
3.9K..............487......
4.0K..............495..
4.1K..............514 where the advance starts to come in..........coincidence?
4.2K..............535
4.3K..............543
4.4K..............556

So is this 'dead area' a result of the Super Victor single plane manifold?

The TTI headers?

Maybe slow ignition timing caused by the ignition box or distributor?

Something else?

We know the timing is being held back for some reason as Cody, 'the data logger', noted. So I sprung for a programmable ignition box, heck I needed a new one for the dyno anyway. When we lock the distributor I'll set the timing curve with the ignition box. I'd like to use a crank trigger for rock solid timing, and a dual plane intake manifold, but those aren't in the budget.

Enough speculation for now, I need to get back to the crank scraper. I gotta make sure it doesn't turn out to be a crank scrapper.
 
IQ52 said:
Who the heck quotes themselves? Ah, me do.

This part all came back to me while I was thinking about Ironmike's struggle and a post by a very intelligent porter and engine builder's speculation about the effect of better low end torque perhaps carrying over to the upper rpm ranges.

These are the torque readings from a typical run on our engine, where the ignition was retarded from where I wanted it to be.

RPM...............TQ
3K.................467..
3.1K..............476......
3.2K..............486..........
3.3K..............496..............
3.4K..............492..................
3.5K..............492......................let's call this 1,000 rpm the dead area
3.6K..............491..................
3.7K..............487..............
3.8K..............483..........
3.9K..............487......
4.0K..............495..
4.1K..............514 where the advance starts to come in..........coincidence?
4.2K..............535
4.3K..............543
4.4K..............556

So is this 'dead area' a result of the Super Victor single plane manifold?

The TTI headers?

Maybe slow ignition timing caused by the ignition box or distributor?

Something else?

We know the timing is being held back for some reason as Cody, 'the data logger', noted. So I sprung for a programmable ignition box, heck I needed a new one for the dyno anyway. When we lock the distributor I'll set the timing curve with the ignition box. I'd like to use a crank trigger for rock solid timing, and a dual plane intake manifold, but those aren't in the budget.

Enough speculation for now, I need to get back to the crank scraper. I gotta make sure it doesn't turn out to be a crank scrapper.
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Whose crank scraper did you use?
 
1) RAMM is my hero.
2) I too like making things.
3) I have more time than money.
4) My sons and I generally do a better job than others.
5) We are oh so humble.
 
I've made crank scrapers but I'm older now. And hopefully wiser. I'm just not that motivated any more. Good on you. Plus you have a good hero!!!!!
 
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