67DodgeDart360
Well-Known Member
Is the kickdown linkage set up right? Please see pictures. Thanks
Is the kickdown linkage set up right?
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And here's a cool old video.
67DodgeDart360
Well-Known Member
how do I know the carburetor is making the car go in passing gear?
That's where you adjust the kick down linkage to be all the way back when the carb is at wide open throttle... The carburetor and the linkage should both max out at the same time...
pearljam724
Well-Known Member
You have too much slack at the adjustable yoke. The yoke needs to rest up against the carburetor throttle bolt/stem. Just like my picture. With that much slack, the tranny won’t even shift gears correctly. Let alone, the kickdown work properly. You will know, without a doubt. When it kicks into passing gear. Approximately between 45- 55mph, when you stomp on the pedal, to the floor. It will make a very distinctive sound. ( Wa-wump ) The engine makes this sound because the transmission is downshifting into 2nd gear at Drive gear road speeds. Causing the engine to rev higher than normal. This creates more torque than staying in Drive gear. More torque or more power to pass. Hence, why it’s called passing gear. Passing gear is actually 2nd gear. The transmission automatically drops down into 2nd. Rather than the operator dropping down into 2nd, manually. For this function to operate properly, it has to be adjusted properly. Once it’s adjusted properly and if it still doesn’t kick down. The transmission would need mildly rebuilt. It would need the valve body pistons polished or clean very lightly. Valve body pistons can slightly pit or become slightly scratched. This causes the valve body pistons to stick in position. This is caused from people not changing transmission fluid. This can be addressed without removing the transmission. Easy as easy gets. If that were the case for anyone. But, you haven’t gotten that far.
Ditch the bolt that you have installed to take up slack. Add an extension cut from all thread. Couple it together with all-thread coupling nut like this. The kickdown linkage has to move exactly at the same time as the throttle linkage. This is achieved by the throttle bolt/stem being pushed up against the yoke, like my picture. You have to add an extension made from all thread if your yoke doesn’t reach the stem. It’s incredibly easy to achieve.
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lemondana
BlackDart
Get the 20-7 and start over!
lemondana
BlackDart
Now, this is the way it is supposed to look! Bravo!
Been driven 30-40K, so it's not as fresh and clean as George Jets' setup above, but here's the 360 in my 67 Barracuda.
As said in the link above, get the Holley carb lever adapter for Mopar; they are cheap and work great. Will make everything else easier. After that, OEM four barrel throttle bracket cable and kickdown rod will work as is. Or, the two barrel setup can be modified. Basically, the two barrel cable hold down has to be moved forward and inch or so, and the kickdown rod lengthened the same amount. How do you know exactly where the cable hold down goes? Just hook the cable to the carb, then pull until the carb just begins to open, then back off until you have just a bit of slack. Where the metal sheath for the cable is, that's where the hold-down clamp goes. Do whatever you have to do to get it there. (I just cut the bracket, move it forward, then weld it together.) For the kickdown, open the carb all the way by hand, then at the same time push the kickdown back as far as it will go. The distance between the carb stud and the back of the kickdown slot is how much the rod needs to be lengthened.
With the accelerator pushed to the floor (and not before), carb should open all the way, and the kickdown should go as far back as it will go. With the foot off the accelerator, cable should not be pulling on the carb, and the kickdown should come all the way forward. Simple, really. Easier I think than trying to set up those stupid aftermarket throttle/kickdown cable setups.
As said in the link above, get the Holley carb lever adapter for Mopar; they are cheap and work great. Will make everything else easier. After that, OEM four barrel throttle bracket cable and kickdown rod will work as is. Or, the two barrel setup can be modified. Basically, the two barrel cable hold down has to be moved forward and inch or so, and the kickdown rod lengthened the same amount. How do you know exactly where the cable hold down goes? Just hook the cable to the carb, then pull until the carb just begins to open, then back off until you have just a bit of slack. Where the metal sheath for the cable is, that's where the hold-down clamp goes. Do whatever you have to do to get it there. (I just cut the bracket, move it forward, then weld it together.) For the kickdown, open the carb all the way by hand, then at the same time push the kickdown back as far as it will go. The distance between the carb stud and the back of the kickdown slot is how much the rod needs to be lengthened.
With the accelerator pushed to the floor (and not before), carb should open all the way, and the kickdown should go as far back as it will go. With the foot off the accelerator, cable should not be pulling on the carb, and the kickdown should come all the way forward. Simple, really. Easier I think than trying to set up those stupid aftermarket throttle/kickdown cable setups.
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
the arm going to the carb is upside down. youe kinda Vee's down. should go up. whats that bold doing in the slide area? not seeimg much right about how its set up.
What you see in posts 8 & 10 is correct.
The Chrysler video shows the correct method of adjustment. You can read and see the details by going to the booklet here,
Master Technician Service Conference - Chrysler's Training for Mechanics , under 1971.
Some of what pearljam posted is incorrect. Yes passing gear is simply the downshift. However it can be 2nd to 1st, 3rd to 2nd etc.
Later torqueflites were designed for 'part throttle' downshift.
Some clever bracketing you've done.
Throttle. My suggestion is to reorient the hold down clamp so it looks like the show manual shows. This provides more leverage so will hold the cable housing more securely.
Tip. Have a friend help to ensure the throttle is actual completely open when the pedal is floored. No more, no less.
Throttle return springs will work correctly as attached.
It does put some leverage on the stud that I personally see as a possible source of eventual failure.
Transmission Linkage
These springs are incorrect and won't do the job.
Both ends of the transmission linkage spring needs to move with the linkage.
This can be done as shown here in the 69 FSM, however there were other versions.
The hairpin clip and washer to ensure the adjustable rod doesn't slip off looks fine.
How well bellcrank will work with the rods I can't say.
The rod angles look about correct. The trick is to have correct matching bell crank ratios, and rod ends are roughly tangent to the arc in which they move.
The Chrysler video shows the correct method of adjustment. You can read and see the details by going to the booklet here,
Master Technician Service Conference - Chrysler's Training for Mechanics , under 1971.
Some of what pearljam posted is incorrect. Yes passing gear is simply the downshift. However it can be 2nd to 1st, 3rd to 2nd etc.
Later torqueflites were designed for 'part throttle' downshift.
Some clever bracketing you've done.
Throttle. My suggestion is to reorient the hold down clamp so it looks like the show manual shows. This provides more leverage so will hold the cable housing more securely.
Tip. Have a friend help to ensure the throttle is actual completely open when the pedal is floored. No more, no less.
Throttle return springs will work correctly as attached.
It does put some leverage on the stud that I personally see as a possible source of eventual failure.
Transmission Linkage
These springs are incorrect and won't do the job.
Both ends of the transmission linkage spring needs to move with the linkage.
This can be done as shown here in the 69 FSM, however there were other versions.
The hairpin clip and washer to ensure the adjustable rod doesn't slip off looks fine.
How well bellcrank will work with the rods I can't say.
The rod angles look about correct. The trick is to have correct matching bell crank ratios, and rod ends are roughly tangent to the arc in which they move.
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abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
one word "LOKAR" will fix that mess ya got going on there. 
pearljam724
Well-Known Member
Transmission Linkage
“ These springs are incorrect and won't do the job.”
You are smoking dope. I have several thousand miles on my kickdown being sprung exactly like that. The only reason why some kickdown linkages are oriented to be this way or the other. Is some kickdown linkages have a tab tack welded to the side of the rod that allows the direct mounting of a spring. Some linkages, don’t have this tab. Both orientations work perfectly fine. “Won’t do the job ? “ Lol ! As if a spring, stops working. Lol !
“ These springs are incorrect and won't do the job.”
You are smoking dope. I have several thousand miles on my kickdown being sprung exactly like that. The only reason why some kickdown linkages are oriented to be this way or the other. Is some kickdown linkages have a tab tack welded to the side of the rod that allows the direct mounting of a spring. Some linkages, don’t have this tab. Both orientations work perfectly fine. “Won’t do the job ? “ Lol ! As if a spring, stops working. Lol !
Suppose it all depends on your defination of doing the job.
The first one pictured will hold the link against the throttle, so sure it will get you by...
The second one pictured helps add more throttle, if that's the goal, but it shouldn't be.
The first one pictured will hold the link against the throttle, so sure it will get you by...
The second one pictured helps add more throttle, if that's the goal, but it shouldn't be.
pearljam724
Well-Known Member
Puff, puff, give. I want some of that stuff.Suppose it all depends on your defination of doing the job.
The first one pictured will hold the link against the throttle, so sure it will get you by...
The second one pictured helps add more throttle, if that's the goal, but it shouldn't be.
Jesus Christ, it does not matter. The only thing that matters is the kickdown linkage is pressed up against the throttle bolt stem at idle and stays there at all times. You’re not sending a man to the planet Pluto for the first time. Either way works, just as effectively. In both instances. All the springs are doing is maintaining tension against the stem. Neither, is better than the other. Both ways are accomplishing the same exact feat. The engine idles properly, the transmission shifts properly, the tranny kicks down properly. Why argue or discredit that your way, is the only way ? I know, I know. That’s the way it came from the factory type of guy. Some linkages don’t have the tabs tack welded to the sides of the rods. Therefore, with these types of rods. They have to be sprung the other way. Grow up and realize the 2 differences.
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The spring with the red arrow pointing to it in post #13, about the fourth pic down, should be removed; it does nothing except reduce the effectiveness of the throttle return spring. The spring attached to the front of the kickdown rod is OK other than being too heavy, and yes, on some Mopars that is where the kickdown spring is attached, and, although the factory drilled a hole for the spring, it can work without it. Here's the spring setup on a big block.
As for the bolt mentioned above, it appears to me that its purpose is to compensate for the kickdown rod being too short. Probably will work, although it's not a particularly elegant solution. It also effectively shortens the slot and therefore the free travel of the rod, but earlier kickdown linkages (like on my 64 Dodge) just hook on directly and so provide zero travel independent of the movement of the carb. I'm not sure why the change to the slot setup, but would guess that it's so that if the trans linkage hangs up for some reason, the carb can still return to idle. (If you look closely, you can see where I lengthened this two barrel kickdown rod to work with a four barrel, and also raised up the cable bracket to put it in a workable spot.)
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They do, but the way its setup now adds spring force with increasing throttle. So it acts as a 3rd throttle return spring. Depending on the driver, that may be a bit much.
As far as the last spring, all it does is counter the throttle return springs.
You want to say the OP's setup will do the job, or that I'm wrong, that's fine.
As far as your insults go, they are uncalled for.
pearljam724
Well-Known Member
I agree. In most cases it actually helps throttle pedal tension in this manner. One throttle return spring alone isn’t quite enough throttle pedal tension. Some guys might like a stiffer pedal, some guys might not. Adding the spring attached to the front of the clevis gives that little extra pedal tension. It doesn’t matter one way or the other. As long as the engine idles properly, carb will open fully at full throttle and tranny functions properly as a result. More ways than one to skin a cat.
The return spring for the kickdown should be a very light spring, no matter how it's attached. The OP's kickdown return spring is too heavy, especially when he already has two throttle return springs. Probably why he added the last spring, to offset some of the high spring tension he's got on his setup.
pearljam724
Well-Known Member
I just now noticed. Damn, those look like they were removed from motorcycle shocks, lol !
One final thing, and I know we're on the verge of beating this horse to death, but I just noticed that the throttle cable is not hooked to the carb at the same place as the kickdown. That's just wrong. Both should attach at the same place on the carb so they will travel the same distance. Also, where the throttle cable is attached is almost certainly incorrect, and I'd be surprised if it is able to open the carb all the way at full throttle.
It is pretty obvious that he is running 2 barrel kickdown bracket and linkage, that is why everything is coming up short.
He made an aluminum adapter to move the throttle cable mount forward, but that still leaves the kickdown linkage arm too short.
Then to go along with his 2 barrel kickdown, he is running a 2 barrel intake manifold with an aluminum 2 to 4 barrel adapter plate under his Holley 4 barrel carb.
2 to 4 bbl adapter plate under 4 bbl carb.
He made an aluminum adapter to move the throttle cable mount forward, but that still leaves the kickdown linkage arm too short.
Then to go along with his 2 barrel kickdown, he is running a 2 barrel intake manifold with an aluminum 2 to 4 barrel adapter plate under his Holley 4 barrel carb.
2 to 4 bbl adapter plate under 4 bbl carb.
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This is the most important observation here and probably accounts for why the OP can't get the trans to kick down!
67DodgeDart360
Well-Known Member
You are right. Is this not how it should be?
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