Is vacuum advance needed with MSD box with a daily driver?

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If you don't run vacuum advance but intend to do any road trips you will literally be dumping unburned gas out the tailpipes the entire way, diluting your oil, and raising your exhaust temps for no reason. It will "run fine without it" but 10,000 miles down the road your engine will be more worn than if you had vac advance. Your call, for some people that stuff isn't important.
 
273 said:
Is that from a performance stand point and or mileage and driveablity??

It seems all there distributors that are designed to run with an MSD box only have no vacuum advance.
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You have to answer the question about initial timing asked. My understanding is with no vacuum advance, your mileage could suffer, though these distributors come with a few degree shims, for upwards of 18degrees advance.
In my scenario, its purely performance, and run 20 initial, and 34 advanced with the same MSD distributor. My motor likes the initial where its at. I'm not too concerned with mileage.
 
Hey, 273, late comer to this thread and the basic answer is yes, it is a good idea and helps well with mileage.

For a street car, a true driver, a car you want to enjoy and not drain the pockets of money, it's a good bet to use it.

It is well documented and I do t care what anyone else says to the contrary.
The car will run with out it but better with it.
 
Just an FYI
In my 11.3Scr 367/ A833, 68 S-clone;
I ran the 292/292/108 for two years on an Orange box, and an Accell sq-top SuperCoil. It spun to over 7200 with that set up. And made power up there too.
but the bottom was real soft with 3.55s, so I swapped them out for 3.91s. And then 4.30s and then 4.88s,and then 5.38s.
Along the way I moved the cam 3 times, and noticed as good as no difference, I even retarded it just to see what would happen.
Along the way I also bought a GVOD, cuz 5.38s are insane.
I got rid of that nasty-boy cam.
I then got me a 270/280/110 hi-lift, went back to the 3.55s and installed a 3.09 low gear set.
I then got me a Jacob's CDI Ignition with an E-core coil. Which worked for a couple of weeks and puked, so back to the Orange box. Then I installed the Jacobs dial back Timing device.Then the Jacobs CDI came back from Warranty, so I bolted that back on. Which lasted another 2 weeks or so, and puked again.
BTW I noticed absolutely no difference between the CDI/E-core and the Orange box/Super coil.
Then I discovered that the DB device had an amp in it, so i hooked that up, beside my Orange. I wasn't gonna pay for another tow-call! After about a year of no problems, I finally pulled the Mopar stuff out.

Now, I gotta tell you, a streeter IMO has to have a working Vcan. When you cruise that beast with the 288 cam, she will want between 50 and 60 degrees of cruise timing. Why? cuz if you don't give her what she wants, see post #26. You have got to start the fire really early, so all the fuel has time to burn. I run really lean on cruize, and that means the fuel in there has a hard time finding oxygen to react with. So by starting the fire early, I hope it will all have reacted by the time the exhaust valve opens. With a 288 cam, the power stroke is very short in terms of degrees, so there will still be a lot of energy left when the exhaust valve opens. This is of course wasted energy now, and there is no cure for that except a smaller cam. So you need to make the best of that, by starting the fire early.
But 50 to 60 degrees,obviously is not possible without a working vacuum advance system.
And there is a little thing called Part Throttle. Cruising around at 2500ish, again the timing will want to be in the mid to high 40s or even early 50s for the very same reasons earlier talked about, but now, also to tame that beast. By giving the engine the advance she craves,She will run a lot smoother, and you can lean it out some more.
I will never run a big cam again.I would rather put the power in the heads.
I run a 276/286/110 now, and that is the limit for me. When it dies, I will be downsizing again.And I will be upping the Dcr some more.
Gears are my friend. Extended rev-ability is my friend.
 
I always run a vacuum advance, unless the cam is so large it can;t function properly. Your cam isn't that big. You will lose part throttle driveability and ffuel mileage by not running it. Full throttle won't be any different, nor will idle. But when you consider the amount of time the engine is at either of those two throttle positions vs. when it's not, you'll see the rationale for running it.

That being said - if you're changing the ignition control anyway, it doesn't really matter.
 
Thanks guys that's what I thought you can run without but your leaving some mileage on the table. It just seemed every distributor that was to work exclusively with a CDI box had no vacuum advance I started to think that I was missing something.

But I decided to bite the bullet and got a Holley sniper efi with the MSD trigger distributor and no CDI. Comes Friday
 
Pretty much any CDI box can work with any distributor. Most ignition manufacturers have options both with and without vacuum advance. For the racer the vacuum can itself can be a source of minor timing fluctuation and the camshafts in those engines may not work in any form with one. Because they are at WOT to race, it's not needed there.
Guys see race cars or high-powered street cars without them and think somehow the advance itself hurts so don't run it. It's a more modern idea that street driven cars don't need a vacuum advance (read that as internet...). IMO it's promoted by those that either don't care about mileage, don't know how much better most engines will run with them, or can't fine tune well enough to discover the improvement.
Like I said - at full throttle there is no difference or performance advantage. At idle, depending on what kind of vacuum advance is used, it can either help, or make no difference. But at any other throttle position a functioning, properly adjusted, ported vacuum, vacuum advance can add a lot of economy and performance.
 
273 said:
Do you have any idea how much in canadian dollars it would be to my door just outside of Toronto with shipping and handling and duty and any brokerage fees ?

The master kit with distributor and rotor ?
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I would ship USPS to Canada. I Charge in USD, and any brokerage is out of my hands, and applied at customs.

by "master kit" i meant the sniper that comes with the fuel pump. they are sold with and without.

USPS on 20x20x20 box to toronto is approx $75-120. pending how much you order. I usually just calculate it on the rail once its packed, for accuracy.
 
Johnny Pace said:
I would ship USPS to Canada. I Charge in USD, and any brokerage is out of my hands, and applied at customs.

by "master kit" i meant the sniper that comes with the fuel pump. they are sold with and without.

USPS on 20x20x20 box to toronto is approx $75-120. pending how much you order. I usually just calculate it on the rail once its packed, for accuracy.
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Oh nevermind, I see you ordered it elsewhere. good luck.
 
Its that brokerage fee that kills us. It's not a percentage of the price. Sometimes you get hit with it and other times you don't and it's like $45 on top of everything else.
So I could buy something for $10 and can be $100 by time I get it. Not so bad if your buying a couple thousands of dollars of stuff all at once.



Sorry Johnny Pace, My credit card is $300 one, so I'd have a hard time getting it from you and they actually had one up here for $1450 figured with shipping it would be about the same or a little cheaper.

But I am interested in your distributor you had them actually work with the sniper or they should ?
 
273 said:
Its that brokerage fee that kills us. It's not a percentage of the price. Sometimes you get hit with it and other times you don't and it's like $45 on top of everything else.
So I could buy something for $10 and can be $100 by time I get it. Not so bad if your buying a couple thousands of dollars of stuff all at once.



Sorry Johnny Pace, My credit card is $300 one, so I'd have a hard time getting it from you and they actually had one up here for $1450 figured with shipping it would be about the same or a little cheaper.

But I am interested in your distributor you had them actually work with the sniper or they should ?
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I Ship to Canada USPS MAIL every week. Yes my distributors work with the sniper and fitech.
 
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273 said:
Its that brokerage fee that kills us. It's not a percentage of the price. Sometimes you get hit with it and other times you don't and it's like $45 on top of everything else.
So I could buy something for $10 and can be $100 by time I get it. Not so bad if your buying a couple thousands of dollars of stuff all at once.



Sorry Johnny Pace, My credit card is $300 one, so I'd have a hard time getting it from you and they actually had one up here for $1450 figured with shipping it would be about the same or a little cheaper.

But I am interested in your distributor you had them actually work with the sniper or they should ?
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If you are careful and do not use UPS(United Parcel Service), but use USPS ( United states postal service), the brokerage fee should not bite you. You will probably get a tax bill, GST, but that is about it. I order a fair bit from all over, and if you stay clear of Courier UPS, you should be fine. I always confirm who the shipper is using first.
I ll let you know what the tax bill is on my distributor from Pace is when it arrives ( it's on the way).

Ken
 
Got my Distributor today.. Tax bill on a distributor and rotor from Pace was 46.53
no brokerage fee. shipped with USPS/ then CANADA Post

FYI
 
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