Kelsey Hayes SBP disc brake questions

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4spdragtop

4spdragtop

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I bought these a long time ago and rebuilt them with Centric pieces(pistons, boots, seals, anti rattle clips). There were no caliper to spindle bolts(or washers??)with them, so I bought some on here that are 7/16-20 and 1 3/4" long.
Question 1, are these bolts the correct length? See pics from manual.
#2 I'm assuming there should be washers?
#3, Centric anti rattle clips, these dont come close to anti rattling much lol, can I just bend these bitches down and over?
Thanks all
Steve

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if there is any wear on the caliper rails your pads slide on, the anti rattle clips won't make good contact...check for wear and or grooves.
original anti rattle clips are made of spring steel and you can't bend them
 
ir3333 said:
if there is any wear on the caliper rails your pads slide on, the anti rattle clips won't make good contact...check for wear and or grooves.
original anti rattle clips are made of spring steel and you can't bend them
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Well, i have to disagree with you a little bit here.
Yes, if you have original pad hold down clips, there isn't any reason to bend them.
But, i have had occasions that i have had to "bend" a few back into shape due to neglect, or being bounced around for years and years in storage.
They can be bent, no problems, never had an issue doing it.
It's the modern reproduction ones that aren't bent right, out of the box, that you have to make right.
 
I can dig out my KH brakes for pictures, if needed. Sounds like the knowledgeable members here have you covered.
 
OK..i've tried bending original clips and found it difficult.The re-pop clips i've used seemed to be mild steel and bend easily but won't hold their shape.
It's a conundrum!
 
Ok, I brought a caliper in to "work" with me. I'm stumped. These bolts look good, apparently the length is good at 1.75". But they bottom out in the caliper with 3/4" of smooth shoulder sticking out of the one half. Now when I measure the unthreaded hole/boss, its 1/2". Now add a flat washer, that's another 1/8". Soooo
.75-(0.5+.125), leaves approx 1/8" "excess". So either the bosses have been ground on(unlikely) OR the threaded part of bolts(reproduction) is shy approx 1/8".
Ideas??
Thanks again.

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If you look at the diagram from the FSM it shows a completely threaded bolt from the caliper bracket.
The bolt you are pointing to in the diagram is the knuckle to lower ball joint bolt and has a caste nut on the ball joint side.
Flip the caliper assembly over, we are only seeing the back side.
 
4spdragtop said:
Ok, I brought a caliper in to "work" with me. I'm stumped. These bolts look good, apparently the length is good at 1.75". But they bottom out in the caliper with 3/4" of smooth shoulder sticking out of the one half. Now when I measure the unthreaded hole/boss, its 1/2". Now add a flat washer, that's another 1/8". Soooo
.75-(0.5+.125), leaves approx 1/8" "excess". So either the bosses have been ground on(unlikely) OR the threaded part of bolts(reproduction) is shy approx 1/8".
Ideas??
Thanks again.

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You have even less space than mine. If I bottom out my bolts, I have a 7/8" gap where the caliper ears go. Add a washer and the hardline bracket, and it clamps down just fine. What does your caliper ear measure?
 
I agree with MoparLeo, the bolts you are pointing to are the ones that hold the lower ball joint on. I presume the ones you have a question about are the ones that hold the caliper to the spindle, correct?
 
Thanks guys, caliper ears are 1/2" thick. The bolts in my parts manual pic Im pointing at dont look completely threaded to me?? Appear to have a shoulder.
In another FSM pic(sectional) you can see the bolt with shoulder.
Weird....anyone got the length of threaded portion?
MoparLeo said:
If you look at the diagram from the FSM it shows a completely threaded bolt from the caliper bracket.
The bolt you are pointing to in the diagram is the knuckle to lower ball joint bolt and has a caste nut on the ball joint side.
Flip the caliper assembly over, we are only seeing the back side.
Click to expand...

cudamark said:
You have even less space than mine. If I bottom out my bolts, I have a 7/8" gap where the caliper ears go. Add a washer and the hardline bracket, and it clamps down just fine. What does your caliper ear measure?
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cudamark said:
I agree with MoparLeo, the bolts you are pointing to are the ones that hold the lower ball joint on. I presume the ones you have a question about are the ones that hold the caliper to the spindle, correct?
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The extra set I have in my garage for my '66 uses caliper to spindle bolts that are 1 1/2" long on the whole shank, a grade 8 castleated bolt head with a 5/8" wrench size. The threaded section of the shank is about 1/2" long and has that little plastic button in the threads to keep the bolt from vibrating out. Like I said before, the machined part of the shank is 7/8" long.
 
These are 1 3/4 long, and threaded portion is approx 1/2" long. Smooth shoulder is approx 7/8".
Sounds like yours are similar....maybe just stack some washers?
cudamark said:
The extra set I have in my garage for my '66 uses caliper to spindle bolts that are 1 1/2" long on the whole shank, a grade 8 castleated bolt head with a 5/8" wrench size. The threaded section of the shank is about 1/2" long and has that little plastic button in the threads to keep the bolt from vibrating out. Like I said before, the machined part of the shank is 7/8" long.
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My caliper ears are 9/16" thick, so, that may be part of your problem. I can't see how adding a thicker washer or two would hurt. I'd get some good quality ones though. Something hardened....grade 8 if they make them.
 
I'm gonna have to go 3/16- 1/4" thick. Not exactly sure why this is such a puzzle.
Thanks for the help guys!:thumbsup:
cudamark said:
My caliper ears are 9/16" thick, so, that may be part of your problem. I can't see how adding a thicker washer or two would hurt. I'd get some good quality ones though. Something hardened....grade 8 if they make them.
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You certainly are making a big mountain out of a mole hill.
Those repop caliper mounting bolts that you got from that guy in Canada that sells them, are made correct, and nothing wrong with them.
Install the caliper, hose brackets, to the spindle, and tighten down.
You will find nothing wrong.
And by the way, the factory manual that you show a picture of is for the BUDD disc brake system, which is totally different from the Kelsey Hayes system.
BUDD disc brakes, BENDIX disc brakes, KELSEY HAYES disc brakes, are different from one another, and even though they all are 4 piston calipers, they are all unique to one another.

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I respect what you're saying Jim, BUT they wont work the way they are and definitely wont work whether going down a mountain OR a mole hill, so here we are. Yep Jason makes great reproduction bolts as well as other pieces. A "normal" 1/8" flat washer wont take up all the slack, I will just look for a thicker washer to snug it up. It wont snug up as is.
Sorry I didnt realize that diagram was for BUDD brakes. FSM isnt the greatest in the brake dept.
Thanks.
**edit** I just reread your post. I think the reason for the slack(now that u mention it) is maybe the hose brackets? I'll have to find a pic and see where they mount. Bracket and washer would do it I bet!!

hemi71x said:
You certainly are making a big mountain out of a mole hill.
Those repop caliper mounting bolts that you got from that guy in Canada that sells them, are made correct, and nothing wrong with them.
Install the caliper, hose brackets, to the spindle, and tighten down.
You will find nothing wrong.
And by the way, the factory manual that you show a picture of is for the BUDD disc brake system, which is totally different from the Kelsey Hayes system.
BUDD disc brakes, BENDIX disc brakes, KELSEY HAYES disc brakes, are different from one another, and even though they all are 4 piston calipers, they are all unique to one another.

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What EXACTLY is wrong with the set up that your assembling.
I had a hard time trying to figure it all out, and gave up, until my attention span came back.
Why cant the caliper, caliper hose bracket, repop bolts, bolt down onto the spindle?
That bolt is refereed to as a "shoulder bolt" in the industrial world.
Some Kelsey Hays brake engineer, designer, figured that a shoulder bolt was necessary when that system was designed, back in the day.
But in real life a regular 7/16 bolt 1 3/4 inch length will work just fine.
For years and years i thought those shoulder bolts had to be used, as you couldn't find them, so regular grade 8 bolts were used.
Never had an issue using store bought grade 8 bolts of the proper length.
Don't believe me, just get some regular bolts and give it a try, and do it as an experiment.

I never ever, heard of your "issue" dealing with all the disc brake systems that i rebuilt, sold, in the decades that i have done this.
Guess you, have gotta be the first. Dunno.
JV.
 
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