Lockup to non-lockup question(s)

-
Just a FYI. I'm going to try and build an "electric" LU 904 for the slant six. Mopar never made that trans (except for maybe a truck application, but I have never seen one), as the electric LU trans was controlled by the vehicle computer, and the slant six was discontinued prior to that application.
 
So to sum up, if I understand correctly, with my 340 and crank register of 1.58"ish, I can use the early version of the lockup trans(which I have) as long as I'm using a lockup converter??
Another question....is my trans a 3 spd?
Thanks
 
Back in the late 80s when I was selling Dodges I had sooo many customers insist they had 4 or 5 speed autos because they would feel the lockup TQ …lol
 
So to sum up, if I understand correctly, with my 340 and crank register of 1.58"ish, I can use the early version of the lockup trans(which I have) as long as I'm using a lockup converter??
Another question....is my trans a 3 spd?
Thanks
If it has a high stall, and you had the right rear gear, you could conceivably refer to an A999 as a 4.5 speed, that is;
a continuously variable convertor, with a ratio up to about 2:1
plus three gears in the case,
plus a half-gear in the lock-up.
The nice thing about a convertor, is that it is always available to be a gear-splitter between every gear.
What I mean is; say yur cruising along in second gear at 35=2000, and you want to speed up.
Ok well to do 35 at 2000, you would have have 3.23 gears
let's say you have a 2800 convertor.
so you step on it, and the rpm rises up to 2800, the convertor locks in, and yur motoring ahead at IDK say plus 20 hp. and the trans has not even downshifted!.
Now see, that's 800rpm you gained right there.
Had the trans downshifted with a 2000 stall, the rpm would have jumped to 3800, and the stock 340 is right on point, ready to race. But you didn't want that, you just wanted to speed up a lil.
So then, the 2800 stall, in this case, is acting like a half a gear.

Now, if yur looking to drop cruise rpm for a long-distance tour, the effectiveness of a lock-up is gonna depend a lot on your current gears, and the torque of the engine.
Lets assume you have 3.23s and the convertor is a 2400 LU.
In this case 65 would be 2615 at zero slip,/same as lockup. But lets say your car does not require much power to be motored at 65, so in non-LU, the rpm actually slips down to 2500.
So which combo will sip less fuel? My money is on the slipping 2500.
IMO
that's the wrong way to use a LU trans.

Lets say your current trans is a regular A904, no LU, and it has a 2200TC. and still with 3.23s. Ok so 65 is calculated to be 2616 @zero slip, and yur convertor is cruising along at 2500 just like the first example.
Your starter gear, using a factor of 1.8 at Wot, means you will be launching at an equivalent ratio of 20/1, and by the time you run out of rpm, the convertor is down to say 1.4, so the equivalent ratio is 11/1..
Now, lets convert that to ftlbs. Lets say your 340 puts out 200ftlbs at @ 2000, so then, you are launching at up to 200 x 20/1= 4000 ftlbs, and the tires are on fire.

Now lets to the same exercise with 2.76 gears, an A999 low gear of 2.54, and a 2800stall/ LU convertor.
Firstly, 65 =2230 in LU; pretty sweet compared to 2615.
Now for your starter gear;
2.76 x 2 54 x 1.8= an instantaneous ratio of 12.62, which is excellent.
Now, lets say at 2800, your 340 kicks out 20% more torqe, so she's at 240 ftlbs, so to the road is 240 x 12.62=3030. ... and the tires are still spinning enough to get you to where the power is, so off you go.
Please understand, I picked these torque numbers out of a hat, just for illustration.

That's how you use the A999 LU 2800 Tc.... IMO
Finally, your fuel economy, is estimated to get better by half the percentage in rpm decrease. So from 2615 to 2230 is a drop of 14.7 %, and half of that is 7.4% and that is the expected gain in mpg. But that does not take into account that with the A904, the trans was slipping, so that is an additional economy gain. Lets throw in a token .1%, and the savings becomes 7.5%
Say the 340 was getting 15 mpgs with the A904/3.23s. Swapping to the A999/2.76s is estimated to gain you 7.5%, so that comes to 1.12 mpg.
That's gonna save you .46 USg gallons per 100 miles. in liters that is 1.7 liters. or $2.50C, this week, lol. And 1000 miles times two, saves you $50C if I got my math right......., which at 2AM I can't be sure of lol.

Ok here's the point, if your Cruize-timing is off several degrees, as is typical, that will cost you more money.
Lets say going from 2615 to 2230 you really get out of the timing groove, and you break even at 15mpg. Now you've done all this work, and spent all this time, and bought a convertor and you didn't save nuttin' in mpgs. Boy that would sure frost my acorns.

Ok lets say your cruize-timing at 2515, is 26 total mechanical plus a typical 12* more in the VA, for a total of 38* . That is not nearly enough for steady-state long-distance cruising. More than likely the 340 will want 56 or more degrees for best fuel economy so, 38* is severely retarded. I mean IDK what your numbers are but you get the idea. That's gonna cost you way more than all that swapping chit around might.

So how can you figure your best cruize-timing?
Answer; well IDK, but I can tell you how I do it.
First you gotta know what rpm you are gonna cruize at.
Then, just rev it up to that rpm, and tug on the distributor. When the rpm goes up, you bring it back down, then add more timing. Repeat until, more timing does Not produce more rpm.
Next, install your timing lite, rev it up to cruze rpm, and read the balancer. Subtract 3 degrees for lack of load, and that is your target Cruize-Timing
Now you just gotta figure out how to make your distributor spit it out.
If you change your Cruize rpm, then yur gonna have to repeat finding the target at the new rpm.
I always drop 3 degrees to compensate for lack of load. That's done me well. I have a dash-mounted, adjustable, timing module, that I can fine tune as I drive.
After you get the timing right, you can lean the crap out of the carb until the engine complains, then give a lil back. You'll be working on the transfers probably cuz you may not yet be on the mains. This is the time that a tiny-Primary Spreadbore comes in handy, cuz it may get up on the mains making tuning way easier.
IDK, I have a hi-compression 367, that cruizes at 2240, so it's barely open at 65, I gotta do all kinds of tricks get fuel economy off the transfers..
Anyway, I gotta get some sleep, it's 2:30AM here. TTYL
 
Last edited:
So to sum up, if I understand correctly, with my 340 and crank register of 1.58"ish, I can use the early version of the lockup trans(which I have) as long as I'm using a lockup converter??
Another question....is my trans a 3 spd?
Thanks
No. To use a LU trans and LU converter your crank needs to have the 1.8 pocket. Which any 68 or newer V-8 or slant six should have.
 
Reviving this thread...can anyone tell by these #'s if it's a 4spd OD 904?
Thanks
Steve

20240807_171634.jpg
 
If you can post a picture of the whole trans, it would be easy to tell if it is a 4 sp OD trans.
If that number is 4130972 It is not a 4 sp OD. It is a late 1979 318 A-904 trans
 
Just a FYI. If you find a A-500/42RH/42RE you might not want the 42 RE. The 42RE is controlled by the engine/trans computer in the OE installations, so it requires more control systems to be used as a "addon". The way you can tell is by the electrical connector. The A-500/42RH has a electrical connector with only 3 pins (not the connector for the neutral safety - backup switch). The 42RE has a connector with more pins. I forget how many.
 
So I'm reviving this thread as it seems my converter/rear gears future upgrade has kinda snowballed. I don't like the thoughts of hwy driving at 3-3500 rpm, so it makes sense to use a converter that would work in an OD transmission.
I want to use one with as little mods as possible.
What to use and which vehicles did they come in? There's quite a few wrecking yards around here.
Thanks
 
Good morning Charlie, I'm looking to add an OD.(Bring rpms down on hwy drives).
Which to my understanding would be adding another gear.
I am hoping to do this with least amount of mods as possible.
I'm not sure the difference in LU or non LU.
I am lost. What are you wanting to do? Are you looking for OD, or LU, or OD & LU?
 
LU is lock up converter. If you're going to do over drive, you might as well go LU, also. If I remember right you have a small block engine. There is no REAL EASY way to do the OD/LU on a "A" body. The easiest trans to use would be the A-500/42RH trans. It will sorta bolt up to the LA engine and has OD and LU. However you will need to cut the floor and make a new trans crossmember/mount. Driveshaft will need to be modified. Then you will need to do the electrical controls for the trans. This can be as simple as two toggle switches, or as fancy as some pressure switches, vacuum switch, and relays, for automatic operation (kits are available). Might have to fab "kickdown" linkage.
There are threads on this site about doing this conversion.
I also know of some people that have used the GM 200R4 transmision. That can be done without cutting the floor, but requires many special parts (read much more expensive).
If you want to talk about this stuff, send me a message, and I'll give you my phone number
 
:lol:
LU is lock up converter. If you're going to do over drive, you might as well go LU, also. If I remember right you have a small block engine. There is no REAL EASY way to do the OD/LU on a "A" body. The easiest trans to use would be the A-500/42RH trans. It will sorta bolt up to the LA engine and has OD and LU. However you will need to cut the floor and make a new trans crossmember/mount. Driveshaft will need to be modified. Then you will need to do the electrical controls for the trans. This can be as simple as two toggle switches, or as fancy as some pressure switches, vacuum switch, and relays, for automatic operation (kits are available). Might have to fab "kickdown" linkage.
There are threads on this site about doing this conversion.
I also know of some people that have used the GM 200R4 transmision. That can be done without cutting the floor, but requires many special parts (read much more expensive).
If you want to talk about this stuff, send me a message, and I'll give you my phone number
Thanks Charlie. It sounds like its a bit more extensive than what I was wanting to do. I've no issues with custom driveshaft, converter, but floor cutting and big $$ is something I want to avoid. For the most part it's an original Cali S car so trying to keep it "true" so to speak.
Thanks.
 
What’s your rpm goal on by the hwy? 276s and a little taller tire can get u under 2000 rpm easily at 65/70 mph. A good name brand tork will solve the drivability problem. U can do this all for around $2 grand. Ex= tork $700-1000, nice used gears and a sure grip $450.00 or use ur sure grip then gears are only $50-$200. Tires u have may be tall enough. A 26 inch tall tire will do it. Try the gears and tires to see how u like them first. U may not rant to change the converter. U have a 340 in there do u not? I’ve ran many different purple cam in my street 340s with every gear set under the sun. Swapped in 276s and drove from Unity Sask to Victoria BC with no ill effects. Good luck 2 ya buddy, I wish u well. Kim
 
Last edited:
Be nice to be around 2500 on hwy at 60-65 mph. Current tires are bfg 245/60/15. So over 26".
Cam is wanting more rpm's, so a converter change and possible gear change as well.(both slightly).
 
LU is lock up converter. If you're going to do over drive, you might as well go LU, also. If I remember right you have a small block engine. There is no REAL EASY way to do the OD/LU on a "A" body. The easiest trans to use would be the A-500/42RH trans. It will sorta bolt up to the LA engine and has OD and LU. However you will need to cut the floor and make a new trans crossmember/mount. Driveshaft will need to be modified. Then you will need to do the electrical controls for the trans. This can be as simple as two toggle switches, or as fancy as some pressure switches, vacuum switch, and relays, for automatic operation (kits are available). Might have to fab "kickdown" linkage.
There are threads on this site about doing this conversion.
I also know of some people that have used the GM 200R4 transmision. That can be done without cutting the floor, but requires many special parts (read much more expensive).
If you want to talk about this stuff, send me a message, and I'll give you my phone number
Is there a 904 with lockup option? Typically how many rpms would lock up drop? If this is an option , is this a bolt in (no crossmember/ driveshaft mods) option? Thank you
 
-
Back
Top