Looking at Tubular K member

[Rassnasty82]

So i have done some research on the AJE K member and what i read was not good but that was over 10 years ago and if summit is selling their product one would think they fixed the issues. Has anyone recently purchased the AJE for their car and how did it go? I plan on going coil over and rack and pinion next year but maybe not right away so if i need to wait to buy entire kit then so be it. I am also looking at the QA1 k member and slowly buying the other components to rid myself of the torsion bars.

 

[Professor Fate]

Summit is just a reseller, so does not affect QC from suppliers.
Not familiar with AJE, so can't comment on that. But, if I was in the market for a setup like that, my first call would be to @HemiDenny, a member here with an excellent rep from actual users of his product.

 

[Super-Cuda]

From my research here and other sites.

Some of these kits are absoulute garbage! Bad welds, poor geometry , ill fitting very poor after purchace support and generally unsafe. There's even pics online of some of the component failures and the're not pretty.

I personally used RMS Suspensions and bought the Alter-K- ation front suspension and The Street-Lynx 4-bar triangulated rear suspension for my 68 Barracuda. Works fantastic and no problems after 5000 miles. The owner, Bill Reilly is great to deal with and after sales service is fantastic!

I didn't know about HDK Suspensions when I bought my setup but I definitley would have considered it as it extremely well built and the company receives great reviews for its service. The owner is well known on this site and has been modifying/restoring A-Bodies for years.

Late Mopar A Body Front Suspension Parts 67-76

Whatever setup you use, check it out thoroughly. Your life will be at risk if you buy junk replacing suspension components.

 

[Rassnasty82]

From my research here and other sites.

Some of these kits are absoulute garbage! Bad welds, poor geometry , ill fitting very poor after purchace support and generally unsafe. There's even pics online of some of the component failures and the're not pretty.

I personally used RMS Suspensions and bought the Alter-K- ation front suspension and The Street-Lynx 4-bar triangulated rear suspension for my 68 Barracuda. Works fantastic and no problems after 5000 miles. The owner, Bill Reilly is great to deal with and after sales service is fantastic!

I didn't know about HDK Suspensions when I bought my setup but I definitley would have considered it as it extremely well built and the company receives great reviews for its service. The owner is well known on this site and has been modifying/restoring A-Bodies for years.

Late Mopar A Body Front Suspension Parts 67-76

Whatever setup you use, check it out thoroughly. Your life will be at risk if you buy junk replacing suspension components.

Yeah I a not in the position to drop 3k or more on a front suspension setup due to the fact i am already spending a lot on building a stroker motor. Was hoping to be able to take baby steps ie buy the k member first, then piece together the rest of the kit over the next 18 months. sounds like i might have to just install new motor on original k and save up.

 

[72bluNblu]

AJE is basically drag race only stuff. It's not street suspension.

If you're going to do a coil over conversion then RMS and HDK are the best options. They have well thought out assemblies that address some of the issues that occur when you install suspension on a chassis that was designed to carry the loads differently with its original suspension. That's not a minor thing, coil over and torsion bars load the chassis in very different ways. The torsion bar suspension carries all of the suspension load in the K frame and the torsion bar crossmember. A coil over suspension puts all the load directly on the frame rails and coil over mounts (which should NOT be the shock mounts on a Mopar, since they were never intended to carry the weight of the car. Just the resistance from the shocks). Because of the way that the torsion bar suspension loads the chassis and the way the Mopar unibody was designed they're already not reinforced very well between the frame rails and firewall, which is why adding shock tower braces and triangulating the front rails and firewall is so common for stiffening the chassis already. The coil over conversions add more stress to that area, which was already somewhat weak.

What is the intended use of the car? Because with the proper upgrades to the torsion bar suspension you can get your car to handle just as well as with a coil over conversion for significantly less money. All the coil over conversions do that can't be accomplished with the torsion bars is a rack and pinion and header room. But really a rack and pinion isn't a performance upgrade, just a change in feel. And there are good headers that fit with torsion bars.

 

[Super-Cuda]

Hey Rassnasty82,

Just so you can see what the RMS kit looks like in a real car and not an advertisement, here's pics of my install.

I previously had the original K-Frame welded and gussetted , 11/16 tie rods and sleeves, boxed lower control arms and revamped power steering box , all new strut rods and bushings, K&N shocks, re-arched rear springs. Took the whole works out and sold it to use RMS Suspension.

With the new setup , header install is a breeze, , steering is fantastic with great feel, no more wandering, car is absoultely locked in in the turns and is a blast to drive fast in the twisties.

I know there are several members on here who really know how to make the factory stuff perform well and I wish I had been on this site longer as I might have learned how to make it perform better but now I don't have the time to be fu#king around with suspension setups trying to "get it right". My cruising season is short enough as it is. 5000 miles later and I'm very happy with the new setup.

That being said, if budget is an issue , its cheaper to modify your existing suspension but you will need to follow the suggestions by 72bluNblu, AutoXcuda and a couple of others on here who can really dial in the stock suspension. Just be prepared to experiment a lot to get it right.


Heres the whole setup for the front end . Notice that the coil-over mount is integrated into the k-frame and does not use the inner fenders for anything. I actually filled the holes in the inner fenders when I did the body work.

RMS Alter K ation installed!

Frame rails tied and torque boxes installed.
United Car tool Components used. Very beefy and fit well.

This is a must to get the car rigid enough for good handling.

Good luck with your project and post some pics of your car!

Cheers!!

 

[Rassnasty82]

Damn, looks like i will need to save up then. Thanks for the advice

 

[pishta]

How's the turning radius with the rack and pinion? That's the only downside I've heard but it should be an easy fix? I'd run a tubular K only if anyone offered it. Cleaner looking, pan clearance and has to be lighter and better welds.

 

[Rassnasty82]

AJE is basically drag race only stuff. It's not street suspension.

If you're going to do a coil over conversion then RMS and HDK are the best options. They have well thought out assemblies that address some of the issues that occur when you install suspension on a chassis that was designed to carry the loads differently with its original suspension. That's not a minor thing, coil over and torsion bars load the chassis in very different ways. The torsion bar suspension carries all of the suspension load in the K frame and the torsion bar crossmember. A coil over suspension puts all the load directly on the frame rails and coil over mounts (which should NOT be the shock mounts on a Mopar, since they were never intended to carry the weight of the car. Just the resistance from the shocks). Because of the way that the torsion bar suspension loads the chassis and the way the Mopar unibody was designed they're already not reinforced very well between the frame rails and firewall, which is why adding shock tower braces and triangulating the front rails and firewall is so common for stiffening the chassis already. The coil over conversions add more stress to that area, which was already somewhat weak.

What is the intended use of the car? Because with the proper upgrades to the torsion bar suspension you can get your car to handle just as well as with a coil over conversion for significantly less money. All the coil over conversions do that can't be accomplished with the torsion bars is a rack and pinion and header room. But really a rack and pinion isn't a performance upgrade, just a change in feel. And there are good headers that fit with torsion bars.

I would like to take it to the track couple times a year, but mostly street driving. I would be interested to know how to set up the torsion bar suspension to make it handle just as good. I have upgraded torsion bars, and the adjustable race struts up front with factory upper and lower control arms with new ball joints.

 

[Super-Cuda]

How's the turning radius with the rack and pinion? That's the only downside I've heard but it should be an easy fix? I'd run a tubular K only if anyone offered it. Cleaner looking, pan clearance and has to be lighter and better welds.

No issue at all. At least for me.

 

[72bluNblu]

Hey Rassnasty82,

Just so you can see what the RMS kit looks like in a real car and not an advertisement, here's pics of my install.

I previously had the original K-Frame welded and gussetted , 11/16 tie rods and sleeves, boxed lower control arms and revamped power steering box , all new strut rods and bushings, K&N shocks, re-arched rear springs. Took the whole works out and sold it to use RMS Suspension.

With the new setup , header install is a breeze, , steering is fantastic with great feel, no more wandering, car is absoultely locked in in the turns and is a blast to drive fast in the twisties.

I know there are several members on here who really know how to make the factory stuff perform well and I wish I had been on this site longer as I might have learned how to make it perform better but now I don't have the time to be fu#king around with suspension setups trying to "get it right". My cruising season is short enough as it is. 5000 miles later and I'm very happy with the new setup.

That being said, if budget is an issue , its cheaper to modify your existing suspension but you will need to follow the suggestions by 72bluNblu, AutoXcuda and a couple of others on here who can really dial in the stock suspension. Just be prepared to experiment a lot to get it right.


Heres the whole setup for the front end . Notice that the coil-over mount is integrated into the k-frame and does not use the inner fenders for anything. I actually filled the holes in the inner fenders when I did the body work.

View attachment 1715922471


View attachment 1715922472


View attachment 1715922473



RMS Alter K ation installed!






View attachment 1715922474



Frame rails tied and torque boxes installed.
United Car tool Components used. Very beefy and fit well.

This is a must to get the car rigid enough for good handling.

View attachment 1715922475


View attachment 1715922476

Good luck with your project and post some pics of your car!

Cheers!!

If the car was wandering there was probably an easy solution. The proper alignment is the biggest culprit, if you use the factory alignment specs for bias ply tires with radials it will wander all over the place. With tubular UCA's you can add more positive caster than you can get with the factory stuff, and that will cure the wandering issue. Unless it's a worn out steering box or parts.

Rack and pinion vs original worm and ball shouldn't be that different either. The worm and ball stuff will always have a small on center "dead" spot, but if everything is in good working order and properly adjusted it should be small. New or rebuilt steering boxes should make it small enough that it shouldn't be worth the expense of the upgrade for a small change in feel.

And it shouldn't take a lot of experimentation to get it right. It's really a simple formula- larger torsion bars, high quality shocks, a modern alignment with the proper amount of positive caster (the SKOSH chart plus some if you can get it), and you should be in good shape. Coilovers and torsion bars + shocks are both just springs and shocks.

The coil over conversions are just modified MII suspension. So, you can upgrade your Mopar suspension, or you can upgrade Pinto suspension. An RMS is just Pinto based suspension with all tubular aftermarket parts on a modified K frame. There was a time you couldn't get all those parts for a Mopar, but that time is over. Everything on my Duster is tubular, aftermarket, adjustable, etc. It's as different from factory Duster suspension as an RMS is from Pinto suspension.

How's the turning radius with the rack and pinion? That's the only downside I've heard but it should be an easy fix? I'd run a tubular K only if anyone offered it. Cleaner looking, pan clearance and has to be lighter and better welds.

Turning radius with the RMS at least has been documented as being wider. It's because of the specs of the rack and pinion used, you don't get the same turning angle. Remember the rack is for a different car. I suppose you can have a custom rack made, but with off the shelf parts your turning radius will suffer.

I would like to take it to the track couple times a year, but mostly street driving. I would be interested to know how to set up the torsion bar suspension to make it handle just as good. I have upgraded torsion bars, and the adjustable race struts up front with factory upper and lower control arms with new ball joints.

Sounds like you already have most of what you need. What size are your torsion bars?

Adjustable strut rods are nice, as long as you've set them up properly so there's no binding in the LCA. Making them the right length should eliminate any binding, especially with poly or Delrin LCA bushings.

Tubular UCA's are probably the biggest thing you don't have. The factory UCA's don't have enough caster adjustment for radial tires. They were designed for bias ply tires and those use no or even negative caster, which is terrible for radials. If you use Moog K7103 offset bushings in the stock UCA's you can get better numbers, usually up around +3.5° or so of caster. At that point it depends on your tires. That's good enough if you're running 225/60/15 or narrower tires with the all season radials most guys run. On my car I run 275/35/18's, and +3.5° is not enough because of the tracking tendencies of tires that wide. I run +6.5° of caster, and that solves it. But you usually need adjustable tubular UCA's to get that much. I run SPC's from BergmanAutocraft.

Oh, and a good set of shocks. Bilstein RCD's, Hotchkis Fox shocks, maybe Viking or ride tech depending on your preferences. I run the Hotchkis Foxes and Bilstein RCD's on my cars.

Steering should be rebuilt or new. Worn out steering boxes will cause a looser feeling, but there are plenty of options out there now for new replacements. PST for manual boxes, Borgeson for power.

 

[Super-Cuda]

How's the turning radius with the rack and pinion? That's the only downside I've heard but it should be an easy fix? I'd run a tubular K only if anyone offered it. Cleaner looking, pan clearance and has to be lighter and better welds.

Not sure about HDK but I bet RMS will sell you one

. I wanted a rear sway bar for my Street Lynx rear suspension. I called Bill and asked him what he would recommend as there isn't one listed in his product offerings.

His answer?

No problem! I'll make one for you!

Like I said in previous posts , fantastic service!!

 

[Sublime one]

Like so many others have already said, HDK or RMS. Both are quality. I do not have a RMS but have seen enough of them installed to know they are good. On my cars I run HDK, member Denny @HemiDenny here on FABO is the real deal and will talk to you and help you sort out any problems you may have regardless if it is his or not. Great guy and great product. I race and thrash his front end on a regular basis with zero issues. Like someone previously mentioned, front end and associated geometry is not the place to try and scrimp. I will shave and cut corners everywhere I can to save a dollar with exception to braking and steering. Just my .02

 

[DRDIESEL]

So i have done some research on the AJE K member and what i read was not good but that was over 10 years ago and if summit is selling their product one would think they fixed the issues. Has anyone recently purchased the AJE for their car and how did it go? I plan on going coil over and rack and pinion next year but maybe not right away so if i need to wait to buy entire kit then so be it. I am also looking at the QA1 k member and slowly buying the other components to rid myself of the torsion bars.

So i have done some research on the AJE K member and what i read was not good but that was over 10 years ago and if summit is selling their product one would think they fixed the issues. Has anyone recently purchased the AJE for their car and how did it go? I plan on going coil over and rack and pinion next year but maybe not right away so if i need to wait to buy entire kit then so be it. I am also looking at the QA1 k member and slowly buying the other components to rid myself of the torsion bars.

Just put an AJE in a 65 valiant. fit is pretty good. directions sucked. but tech help is spot on

 

[go-fish]

I built my 70 'cuda 600 years ago with the RMS front and rear suspension. Great product and it handles like it's on rails. If you really want to go torsion-less though you HAVE to do some welding. I would say that at the very least you need sub-frame connectors. I also highly recommend j-bars or the XV style bars that go under the fender tops. As pointed out the torsion bars do a lot to support the car's structure so think about that when you delete them.

Having said that, I have just completed a major big time all out front suspension build using torsion bars. The car isn't ready yet but I have the system built and on a dolly with the engine and trans sitting on top of it.

I have every expectation that it will handle as good as the IFS (some say Mustang II). I only put the whiz-bangest parts on it; big bars, k-frame stiffening, SPC UCA's, boxed LCA's, adj. strut rods, 11/16" tie rods, Fox adj. shocks, ....

@72bluNblu and I have had it out on this before and I concede, the IFS systems are more expensive, even when the t-bar suspension is built full boogie, but only slightly. Now, add in that you will have to pay a welder, or buy the material if you weld, and do the stiffening on the car to support the t-bar-less unibody then the spread gets even greater.

Now, you say you may want to piece meal it and put it together a little as you go to spread the cost? No better way to go than the OEM suspension. For me, the biggest benefit was the header clearance for the fitment. Get some Doug's D453 to make life easier.

After having my k-frame out and cleaning it I noticed how absolutely shitty Chrysler was at welding QC. I will never install another OEM k-frame without stiffening it. That work was down right criminal.

 

[abodyjoe]

So i have done some research on the AJE K member and what i read was not good but that was over 10 years ago and if summit is selling their product one would think they fixed the issues. Has anyone recently purchased the AJE for their car and how did it go? I plan on going coil over and rack and pinion next year but maybe not right away so if i need to wait to buy entire kit then so be it. I am also looking at the QA1 k member and slowly buying the other components to rid myself of the torsion bars.

whats the intended purpose? from what i've always read the AJE is more a drag car set up not a street car set up.

the best and most proven tube, R&P , with coil over set up on the market today is the alter-k-tion from RMS. as far as turning radius being limited goes like i keep hearing about. does it limit radius? personally i don't know even though i ran that system for many years until i pulled the car apart. i never noticed any issue in tight parking lots or any place that you would need to turn that tight. personally i think its an overblown argument for some that just want to bad mouth something..


again all depends on intended use.

 

[abodyjoe]

Yeah I a not in the position to drop 3k or more on a front suspension setup due to the fact i am already spending a lot on building a stroker motor.

then redo the stock set up. though you may have close to that into it by the time you are done anyway..lol

 

[72bluNblu]

Here’s the list I created for the AlterK to fully rebuilt stock comparison. I explained my reasoning for what I included, basically the goal was to make the two systems as comparable as possible

Alterkation or K1?

That being said, there are things on that list that fall into the “nice to have” vs “needed” category. It just depends on the planned use of the car and your own skill level. Like boxing the factory LCA’s will save over $400 right out of the gate, but only if you do the rebuild and boxing yourself. Or QA1 UCA’s which would save a little bit and still be more than capable of getting the needed alignment specs.

BergmanAutocraft also has a complete kit now -https://bergmanautocraft.com/product/bac-front-suspension-kit/

Which as kits go is a lot more useful than the Hotchkis TVS as it includes important stuff like the torsion bars and shocks, which the TVS does not. It also includes the newer and much more expensive SPC Gen II UCA’s, which IMO would be overkill for most applications. Not saying they aren’t better, just saying for a car used primarily on the street I would put the extra $400 somewhere else. Like toward a new steering box. But it’s a great choice as a one stop shop and Peter might even let you substitute a couple things, I dunno.

And the torsion bar set up can be put together a piece at a time, unlike any of the coilover conversions. The only issue is that if you’re not careful with your parts selection/installation installments you may end up needing to do multiple alignments. Which could add to the cost if you’re not doing your own alignments.

 

[70aarcuda]

Got 3 qa1 k member in use on bracket cars. All run i0s

 

[72bluNblu]

I have had AJE for over 5 years now and never had a problem. I have Arun it down track I run in the 10s I have a 440 sitting on the AJE since I bout the k member. I drive it around on the street also. I have had no problems but I'm speaking for me and my car.

View attachment 1715928970

The way that AJE kit deals with the upper mounts for the coilovers is a joke. It’s not long term street worthy IMO. Bolt a bracket to the side of the frame rail and use the shock mount which was never intended to carry the weight of the car to back it up? C’mon.

It’s lightweight drag race suspension at best.

RMS and HDK have the proven track records for street use if you’re going to go coilovers.

 

[RON REAGLE]

Here's the QA1 set up in my 68 I've got about 200 miles since the install. So far I really like it

 

[Bigdummy]

If you run a BB or a newer hemi you have to get different oil pans on some of the kits