MA5 5-speed to 5.7 hemi?

[DionR]

BTW, don't know where I got "relocated" as I didn't find that in the thread. He did have to dent them (one down to about half diameter), but I be remembering wrong on the relocating part. I though he said he did, but I didn't find it to support it.

 

[Woods74]

^ This thread is his jam!! Listen to the man!

 

[71Scamper]

^ This thread is his jam!! Listen to the man!

huh???

 

[MoparPowa]

Just pointing it out. Buschi had to relocate a couple of tubes on his headers (as I recall) when he had the LA motor in his car, not sure what he did when he put the Hemi in. At the time, I don't remember him being able to find an 143T flywheel because he had the Dakota one welded up and drilled, so it sounds like things have changed.



Again, just making sure you were aware, not trying to steer you a different direction.

I agree that the AR5 divorced shifter will be too far back, but I still think the MA5 shifter is going to right in line with the TB crossmember.

Here is Buschi's R154 with a Dakota bell:

This is from a guy on Neons.org that put a 2.4 and MA5 in a '77 Celica:

Comparing the two pictures makes me think the shifter on the MA5 will require some additional crossmember work.

Again, just trying to help, not trying to discourage.

I've seen that build actually, the MA5 in the Celica is what convinced me not to scrap the 5.7 and just push forward. I really wanted to put an srt-4 motor in the Dart but that guy has had nothing but trouble with that car and is still unhappy with his clutch situation, both performance and feel. Just doesn't seem worth the hassle right now. I'd love to do a build with a turbo 2.4 and a 904 auto in another A body for a drag car, turbo's love torque converters anyhow.

As for the T-bar crossmember, I can hack that up all day, not running T-bars, not too concerned about it, more concerned about the sheetmetal above it as I want to use a stock floor console. Thinking I may end up having to make a shift rod that kicks forward quite a bit under the console and then bends up out the console and then kicks back to my hand, will just have to kinda feel that one out I suppose.

Some AX15 pics here;

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=257402&highlight=ax15

Greg

Thanks Greg, the more resources the better. I love pictures, anything to have a visual reference.

Looks like Buschi used TTI headers when he went to the Hemi. All of the issues above are related to the LA headers he had in the car, so maybe the TTI's with the Hemi don't interfere. I guess you'd have to ask Buschi.

TTI's with the hemi may not interfere in his later A body but they definitely aren't gonna fit my early A. Leaning towards the S&P shorty headers, just praying they'll fit. Don't want to cut my motor mount like Tincup did to use factory Jeep SRT manifolds that retail for $1000+ and won't even match my exhaust port.

 

[magnumdust]

Not to hijack as this may be relevant to your search for an inexpensive manual transmission option. Have you given much thought to the later modular mustang transmissions?

The T45/TR3650 are on my list of possibilities(providing i keep my car, long story).

The T45 is basically a 5spd T56 and shares some internal parts. They are suppose to be buttery smother shifters. It was the basis for the Keisler RS transmission. The Company theT45source.com has an adapter plate to ditch the integral bellhousing and bolt it to a TKO bellhousing.

The trans looks pretty narrow and companies like Hanlon/promotion claim to have versions that will handle 700hp. Stock is rated at 350-360(correct me if i'm wrong) and people have gotten by with more providing they stayed off the slicks.

Then there is the tr3650, its bigger(by how much is unclear) and the adapter plate is a little more involved because you need a 01-04 trans with an 05+ input shaft. Astro performance has one they rate to 1000hp and 700ftlbs. Stock rated at 360tq or 365tq

Upside is that either would bolt to a TKO bellhousing and allow you to use a 130T flywheel. Downside is that its all unknown territory. I don't know the diameter of the input shaft for the pilot bearing, and fitment in the stock tunnel is a guestimate.

 

[MoparPowa]

Not to hijack as this may be relevant to your search for an inexpensive manual transmission option. Have you given much thought to the later modular mustang transmissions?

The T45/TR3650 are on my list of possibilities(providing i keep my car, long story).

The T45 is basically a 5spd T56 and shares some internal parts. They are suppose to be buttery smother shifters. It was the basis for the Keisler RS transmission. The Company theT45source.com has an adapter plate to ditch the integral bellhousing and bolt it to a TKO bellhousing.

mThe trans looks pretty narrow and companies like Hanlon/promotion claim to have versions that will handle 700hp. Stock is rated at 350-360(correct me if i'm wrong) and people have gotten by with more providing they stayed off the slicks.

Then there is the tr3650, its bigger(by how much is unclear) and the adapter plate is a little more involved because you need a 01-04 trans with an 05+ input shaft. Astro performance has one they rate to 1000hp and 700ftlbs. Stock rated at 360tq or 365tq

Upside is that either would bolt to a TKO bellhousing and allow you to use a 130T flywheel. Downside is that its all unknown territory. I don't know the diameter of the input shaft for the pilot bearing, and fitment in the stock tunnel is a guestimate.

Well, I do appreciate you listing some alternatives. I am familiar with everything you mentioned as I have followed the OD tranny market for at least a few years, throughout the development of Keisler's latest offering. Fitment-wise they may be slightly better, although cost wise I don't think they will come anywhere close to what the MA5 can currently offer. A little extra fabrication with an overall significantly lower cost is an acceptable compromise for me. Unless something were to "rear its ugly head" and make the swap implausible, I don't know if I see myself pursuing anything otherwise.

Right now it's looking like...

MA5 Transmission
3.9L Dakota Bellhousing and clutch fork
AX15 Bearing Retainer
11"/143-tooth 5.7 hemi flywheel(drilled for 10.5" clutch)
Jeep slave cylinder with advance adapters hose kit
Undetermined clutch master with Dakota angle adapter(not sure year?)
GM 26-Spline 1.125" clutch and pressure plate
Custom pilot bearing

I think that's bout it for now.

 

[Greg55_99]

About that slave cylinder. This one?

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=751391&highlight=ax15

Greg

 

[MoparPowa]

About that slave cylinder. This one?

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=751391&highlight=ax15

Greg

That's correct Greg, Buschi340's build led me that way. Figured if it ain't broken don't fix it? He sounded very pleased with it as well from what I read.

 

[magnumdust]

Well, I do appreciate you listing some alternatives. I am familiar with everything you mentioned as I have followed the OD tranny market for at least a few years, throughout the development of Keisler's latest offering. Fitment-wise they may be slightly better, although cost wise I don't think they will come anywhere close to what the MA5 can currently offer. A little extra fabrication with an overall significantly lower cost is an acceptable compromise for me. Unless something were to "rear its ugly head" and make the swap implausible, I don't know if I see myself pursuing anything otherwise.

Right now it's looking like...

MA5 Transmission
3.9L Dakota Bellhousing and clutch fork
AX15 Bearing Retainer
11"/143-tooth 5.7 hemi flywheel(drilled for 10.5" clutch)
Jeep slave cylinder with advance adapters hose kit
Undetermined clutch master with Dakota angle adapter(not sure year?)
GM 26-Spline 1.125" clutch and pressure plate
Custom pilot bearing

I think that's bout it for now.

Ok, just wanted to share it, in case those might have seemed more viable. Either way i can't wait to see what happens.

btw, the MA5 has a kinda funky shifter input?(lack of of a better word) where the shifter sits down on a peg with a single set screw holding the shift handle in place. There is a short shifter on ebay that allows you to use the more common two bolt shift handles. It's on my list for my DD truck, but so are half a dozen other things.

 

[MoparPowa]

Ok, just wanted to share it, in case those might have seemed more viable. Either way i can't wait to see what happens.

btw, the MA5 has a kinda funky shifter input?(lack of of a better word) where the shifter sits down on a peg with a single set screw holding the shift handle in place. There is a short shifter on ebay that allows you to use the more common two bolt shift handles. It's on my list for my DD truck, but so are half a dozen other things.

Thanks for the tip, I'll definitely keep that in mind as I'll have to probably make my own custom shifter to work with the center console.

 

[Buschi340]

Hi
Any questions? Remember I made this a few years ago and there is more on the market today.

clutch I used centerforce dual friction. The plate is from a company called advanced adapters. SB diameter with Toyota splines.

well, if you have the link to moparts it is all written there. All, including the new clutch hydraulic.

There is no difference if you have the SB or a Hemi. It remains the same. You just need a new flywheel (Hemi) or redrill the existing SB flywheel ( i did that, because europe and parts availability doesn't meet that well for those special parts).

The input shaft of the r154 is shorter and smaller in diameter. You need an adapter. Not to buy, homemade but veeeery simple....

Tranny works very well behind my 6.1. You know our Autobahn? I do race a bit there and 1/4 mile as well. but on the track the shifting is hard and difficult under full load. For highway this tranny is perfect!

So, any questions? Feel free ;)

 

[Buschi340]

this is a really nice ford tranny. Available for USD 300 like the R154?

 

[Woods74]

If your gonna swap manual, do something worth it, otherwise you can have plenty of fun manual shift auto. It ain't like the a904/727 is unresponsive or the OD versions of them. Slap your left foot on the floor board when you shift.

 

[MoparPowa]

Hi
Any questions? Remember I made this a few years ago and there is more on the market today.

clutch I used centerforce dual friction. The plate is from a company called advanced adapters. SB diameter with Toyota splines.

well, if you have the link to moparts it is all written there. All, including the new clutch hydraulic.

There is no difference if you have the SB or a Hemi. It remains the same. You just need a new flywheel (Hemi) or redrill the existing SB flywheel ( i did that, because europe and parts availability doesn't meet that well for those special parts).

The input shaft of the r154 is shorter and smaller in diameter. You need an adapter. Not to buy, homemade but veeeery simple....

Tranny works very well behind my 6.1. You know our Autobahn? I do race a bit there and 1/4 mile as well. but on the track the shifting is hard and difficult under full load. For highway this tranny is perfect!

So, any questions? Feel free ;)

It's good to hear from you. You, Greg and Clair have definitely paved the way on this swap for me. I appreciate you guys trying something different and giving us all more and better options for OD transmissions in our old cars. As for the shift quality of the R154, it does seem to have a pretty rough reputation out there. That's why I pursued the GM MA5 trans as it's known for its slick shifting. I'm not "familiar" with your autobahn but I'd sure love to be someday. Sometimes it feels like we've (the states) just lost the desire to innovate, take risks and imagine new things.

this is a really nice ford tranny. Available for USD 300 like the R154?

Are you referring to the transmission I'm trying to run? It's a GM transmission made by Aisin with heavy roots in the R154.

If your gonna swap manual, do something worth it, otherwise you can have plenty of fun manual shift auto. It ain't like the a904/727 is unresponsive or the OD versions of them. Slap your left foot on the floor board when you shift.

Once again, is there something sub-par about this transmission you know about that I don't? It's funny to me that anyone would think I'm intentionally working towards putting in some half-assed effort by the oem, known for failure and poor shift quality. I've been down every road on this, 904/727 with a gear vendors, 4L65e paddle shifted with an engine braking valvebody, A500/A518 auto OD's, Tremec swaps from every conversion shop on the planet, lastly was the GM 2004r. So, of all of these options I've looked at(for years), which one do you believe I should put in my car? I feel like people aren't actually reading the thread, I've already explained this a couple times...

 

[Woods74]

Put the one in you want, I just think, if your that into it you'd shoot a little higher than a NV3500/AX-15, that's all. There are better shifting, better gear spreads out there, not to mention TQ capabilities. And if your going to go to the trouble of cutting your floor up and all the other BS you have to do to go manual, make it something that's your idea of the ultimate manual. Something that will make you smile, not a compromise.

 

[MoparPowa]

Put the one in you want, I just think, if your that into it you'd shoot a little higher than a NV3500/AX-15, that's all. There are better shifting, better gear spreads out there, not to mention TQ capabilities. And if your going to go to the trouble of cutting your floor up and all the other BS you have to do to go manual, make it something that's your idea of the ultimate manual. Something that will make you smile, not a compromise.

I honestly don't know what to say to this considering I just remarked on the fact people clearly aren't reading the thread. Unless I'm reading your statement wrong (which is impossible and you just wrote the wrong thing), what does any of this have to do with the NV3500 OR AX15? The title of the thread has MA5 written in it.

 

[Woods74]

My bad, read one of your posts wrong, didn't mean to pee in your corn flakes. :violent1:

 

[DionR]

Any questions?

Any issues with the wider bellhousing and the TTI's when you went to the 3G Hemi?

Did you relocate header tubes when you had the LA in your car? Or did I just make that up (can't remember where I got that)?

Thanks!

 

[DionR]

Not to hijack as this may be relevant to your search for an inexpensive manual transmission option. Have you given much thought to the later modular mustang transmissions?

The T45/TR3650 are on my list of possibilities(providing i keep my car, long story).

That's some cool stuff! I looked for both of those, but didn't find one before I found the R154 I have. They don't sound like bad choices at all, and if you can buy a QT bell for it, even better.

I wish QT or someone would do up a bell for the R154/AX15/NV3500/AR5/MA5/etc. mounting surface, sure seems like it would have lot's of uses.

 

[DionR]

this is a really nice ford tranny. Available for USD 300 like the R154?

Are you referring to the transmission I'm trying to run? It's a GM transmission made by Aisin with heavy roots in the R154.

Could be wrong, but pretty sure he is talking to magnumdust about the T45/TR3650 info he posted.

 

[MoparPowa]

My bad, read one of your posts wrong, didn't mean to pee in your corn flakes. :violent1:

See, that's why we got off on the wrong foot, I don't even like cereal. ;) Anyhow, it's all good.

Could be wrong, but pretty sure he is talking to magnumdust about the T45/TR3650 info he posted.

Yeah I wasn't sure, makes sense that would be what he's talking about.

 

[Buschi340]

No headder issues with the TTI and HEMI. Had some troubles finding a starter. But the cheap 5.7 HEMI truck starter slipped in perfectly.
With the 340 it was a nightmare. But I used a very cheap pair headders from unknown brand. Duh, brutal denting.

 

[Woods74]

^ no mini starters over there?

 

[71Scamper]

Buschi, so what was the problem with the 340 that you had to dent the headers? I'm concerned now because I don't want to dent up my nice new Doug's headers. Was it a clearance problem with the bell housing or the transmission itself?

 

[Buschi340]

the pipe routed between the starter, torsion bar was the problem. With the big 143 tooth flywheel it had no space.