tcanin00
Well-Known Member
The thought has crossed my mind.Now put turbos on it.
Magnum and Wiring Swap
- Thread starter tcanin00
- Start date
-
DionR
Well-Known Member
Now put turbos on it.
I remember hearing about a guy running a turbo'ed Magnum in an early Dakota 4WD. Even launched in 4WD, I guess he was pretty quick. I think his screen name was "Boxcar"? I never crossed paths with him on the internet, but was always curious. Tried to look him up a couple of times and never really found much info.
I know this thread is about Magnum swaps into A-Bodies, but since my swap was in my '91 Dakota your turbo suggestion got me to thinking about turbo Dakotas.
tcanin00
Well-Known Member
Was the truck teal blue? If it's the same one I'm thinking of, I remember reading about on a DIY Autotune/MS2/3 forum. Even if it isn't the same truck, a turbo'ed Magnum Dakota would be pretty rad.
autopar3000
Well-Known Member
Do you know what cam it is exactly? The stock tune will only tolerate so much duration / overlap before it starts to get confused.
I'm not surprised to hear that. I had originally set up the fuel sync in my 5.9 using the method described in that youtube video. More recently I set the sync using the TSB volt meter method and to be honest it seems to run the same, but my fuel economy is way better. Before I changed the sync my average fuel economy was 18.2 mpg, but it started dropping down to about 17 mpg. (I'm pretty obsessive about measuring fuel economy - not because I'm worried about the gas, but because it can help me find issues like this.) I think it was dropping because my distributor cap was getting worn out - the contacts were getting burnt on the leading edge of where the rotor comes around.
After setting the sync with a volt meter I'm now getting 19.7 mpg after 170 miles of driving - with that same worn out distributor cap (I'll change it soon). That 170 miles was a lot of highway driving so I have to drive a bit more to see where it averages out, but I think it will be better than the 18.2 mpg I was getting before.
Last edited:
DionR
Well-Known Member
I was never able to find much info. Seems like the color is right, but can't say for certain I ever even found a picture so could be I am just fabricating the memory.
tcanin00
Well-Known Member
I believe this is the cam:
https://www.compcams.com/xtreme-ene...hydraulic-roller-cam-for-chrysler-magnum.html
It was already in the motor when I got it. I used to have the cam card but I can't find it now.
And I agree on watching fuel economy as in indication of a problem. I don't have a consistent enough speedometer, odometer, or fuel gage to estimate economy right now. Something that will be fixed at some point.
tcanin00
Well-Known Member
Maybe we're both imagining it, who knows? I feel like I read about it a couple of years ago on an MS2/3 forum or one the that was Magnum motor specific on Tapatalk. And I'm pretty sure the Magnum forum got shut down because I can't find it. Maybe I'll search the interwebs and my bookmarks for it.
DionR
Well-Known Member
tcanin00
Well-Known Member
I think that was it.
autopar3000
Well-Known Member
That cam is on the ragged edge of what the stock tune can deal with. If everything else is set up perfectly then it *should* be OK, but any small thing out of spec can cause issues with the idle and running at low RPM - especially even the slightest vacuum leak. Obviously cap / rotor / plugs / wires all need to be in good shape, but I'm sure you've looked at all that. For vacuum leaks you should first check the L-shaped rubber fitting on the MAP sensor and make sure it's not cracked and it's connected properly. Then there's everything on the intake manifold... the throttle body base, vacuum hoses / vacuum caps, injector o-rings, IAT sensor, and EGR valve. If all that checks out then the intake gaskets could be leaking. And I suppose the map sensor itself could be bad but the service manual doesn't really give you any way to test it without a DRB, it just tells you how to check for correct voltage and grounds - so it probably requires a parts cannon test (i.e. replace it just to see if it's bad). Since you did all that wiring so I'm assuming you have a 1994 service manual?
On the topic of fuel economy calculations, you don't need a working speedo or fuel gauge - just a smart phone. Fill your tank, and use a GPS app to tell you how far you travel every time you drive the car. The next time you fill your car record the amount of fuel you put in and you'll be able to calculate the MPG. You'll have some variation between tanks because you can't be sure you're filling it up to the exact same level every time, but it will all even out over the course of a few tanks of gas.
tcanin00
Well-Known Member
Yeah, it's not a radical cam based off the profile and how it runs. It also has a Hughes dual plane intake and long tube headers. I'm sure that combination might more than what OBD I can deal with.
I feel like I have the vacuum leaks fixed. The Hughes intake doesn't have a provision for the EGR valve, so I have the vacuum lines routed to the controller and duty cycle valve to make it think it's still there.
I couldn't find the 1994 FSM, only the 1995. The wiring schematics were a little different in some places as far as color code and routing. I just filled in the blanks with "educated guesses."
Thanks for the advice of using an app to track mileage. I want to keep the original Swinger speedometer since it's in good condition and only available for two years. I put a 36 tooth speedometer gear in the drive from the transmission, but it reads higher than actual speed. I need to do the math to get the right tooth count for the 3.73 gears.
autopar3000
Well-Known Member
I have the Mopar M1 intake, a 53 mm throttle body, long tube headers, and the Hughes SER0814ALN-14 cam. My cam has a little less duration than yours, a little more lift, with the same 114° LSA. My car runs fine on the stock 1994 PCM. Your extra duration might be bleeding off a little more vacuum than the PCM can handle, but I have seen on the Magnum swap facebook group that other guys have run your same combo with success. Is your IAC nice and clean and moving freely?
Here's a link to the 94 service manual. It's basically the same as the 95, so probably not super helpful to you at this point: Dodge
tcanin00
Well-Known Member
I would like to find an M1 that isn't made of unobtainium. Guys want a fortune for them whenever they come up for sale. I read an intake comparison between a stock kegger, ported kegger, Hughes dual plane, and an M1. The M1 was the highest performer with the best flow numbers. The Hughes was marginally better than a ported kegger. My car and set up seems to run pretty good with the Hughes, so I'll leave it on for now.
The IAC is clean and I can hear the air bypass since I'm running an open element filter. I haven't actually put it in a test mode and cycled it to confirm.
Thanks for posting the link to the 1994 FSM. I'll go through it and see how different it is compared to the 1995. The 1995 makes more references to OBD II and shows relays for the low beams and parking lights, both things that were not in my harness.
tcanin00
Well-Known Member
Also, I had a CEL for a MAP sensor. Once the new one gets here I'll see how different it runs.
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
That will have a direct impact on how it runs.
tcanin00
Well-Known Member
It was running decent until I got the CEL for it. Now it snaps out of throttle when trying to accelerate and it sounds like it's pinging the valves. I know the MAP is one of the main sensors for calculating fuel load and ignition advance in this system.
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
Yup
autopar3000
Well-Known Member
Yeah, people want stupid money for those intakes, I got lucky and found my M1 relatively cheap ($750 CAD). I'm surprised the Hughes wasn't better, I have only heard good things about them. But I would say unless you can find an OBD1 Mopar Performance PCM or upgrade to OBD2 and get a custom tune, the M1 isn't really too great. The problem is the 5200 rpm rev limiter on the stock tune.
My experience with the M1 is like this.... it's slightly worse than the kegger below 3000 rpm, about the same from 3000 - 4000, and way better above 4000 rpm. The kegger is pretty much out of breath by 5000 rpm, so you might as well shift. But with the M1 (plus a 53 mm throttle body, plus a cam, plus long tube headers, etc) the engine wants to rip right past 5200 rpm, so the stock PCM isn't ideal. I do have a Mopar Performance PCM for 1994 / 1995 trucks, and it works well.
tcanin00
Well-Known Member
Yeah, the last one I saw was $850 USD. The Hughes intake with all of the brackets for the fuel rails and adapter to run a stock throttle body is $750 USD new. If I remember correctly, the Hughes is based on an Edlebrock design for carbed applications. My car seems to run great with it, so I don't see a need to change it. I couldn't find the comparison between intakes, but I found a decent discussion about it and other intakes on another Dodge truck forum:
Magnum Intake Shootout
I do have an OBD II PCM and engine harness from a 1999 Dakota 5.2 manual transmission that I plan on swapping in once I get some other things straightened out.
autopar3000
Well-Known Member
Maybe it was this article you saw? Not exactly dyno testing, but from a flow perspective the Hughes is still way better than the kegger. Testing intake manifolds for the 5.2 / 5.9 Magnum V8 engines
I saw that Engine Masters episode and was pretty impressed with the carb air gap. I think the Hughes intake is pretty much that with injector bungs, so the results are probably pretty accurate for EFI comparison purposes.
That was my plan... drive it and enjoy it for a while on OBD1, then upgrade to OBD2 and get a tune. But I wasn't sure how an OBD2 PCM could control the 46rh OD and LU, so I was thinking I would probably have to do a trans swap too. Then I found a MP OBD1 PCM part # P5249546, so I think I'm done with engine upgrades.
Let us know how that MAP sensor replacement works out for you!
I saw that Engine Masters episode and was pretty impressed with the carb air gap. I think the Hughes intake is pretty much that with injector bungs, so the results are probably pretty accurate for EFI comparison purposes.
That was my plan... drive it and enjoy it for a while on OBD1, then upgrade to OBD2 and get a tune. But I wasn't sure how an OBD2 PCM could control the 46rh OD and LU, so I was thinking I would probably have to do a trans swap too. Then I found a MP OBD1 PCM part # P5249546, so I think I'm done with engine upgrades.
Let us know how that MAP sensor replacement works out for you!
tcanin00
Well-Known Member
Yes, this was the article I read a while ago. Thanks for finding it. From my understanding, the Hughes intake is a licensed copy of the Edlebrock Air Gap so performance should be similar.
Yeah, while I'm waiting for the MAP sensor I figured I would fix some wiring problems. The fuel level and temp gauge voltage regulator was getting constant power, so I rewired it to switched/Run power. I want to switch the power to constant for the headlight warning buzzer in case I leave the lights on, and I have the constant and switched power backwards for the radio. Minor problems, but 2 of the 3 required pulling the speedometer, which means removing the the steering column.
tcanin00
Well-Known Member
Also, I read that OBD II uses a transponder key and theft deterrent system. One guy suggested that if you have the ignition switch and key, hook them up and tuck them away in the dash. Another suggested using a tuner to turn off the theft deterrent system.
I don't have the ignition switch, key, or the dash side of the harness. Is there way around this, or do I need a tuner?
I don't have the ignition switch, key, or the dash side of the harness. Is there way around this, or do I need a tuner?
Use the pcm and harness from a Ram truck, those rarely/never had the security modules. Most Durango’s had them and quite a few Dakota’s did as well.
autopar3000
Well-Known Member
+1 on 75slant6's comment. Watch out for Cherokees too, I think a lot of them had security. Maybe you could google the PCM part number and get some answers on what it came out of.
If it turns out you do have a security PCM... well, before I make my next suggestion, let me say I hate Facebook groups for car advice. The nature of posts and comments for responses isn't great, I think a forum is much better. But there aren't a lot of guys on FABO that have done the EFI Magnum swap (certainly not as many as there are that could help you with just about any other Mopar related question). The Magnum EFI swap group on Facebook has a bunch of guys that know what they're talking about, so if you're not already a member you might want to join it. I searched through some old posts about the security issues and saw some responses, so you might be able to find the answer without posting a question of your own.
If it turns out you do have a security PCM... well, before I make my next suggestion, let me say I hate Facebook groups for car advice. The nature of posts and comments for responses isn't great, I think a forum is much better. But there aren't a lot of guys on FABO that have done the EFI Magnum swap (certainly not as many as there are that could help you with just about any other Mopar related question). The Magnum EFI swap group on Facebook has a bunch of guys that know what they're talking about, so if you're not already a member you might want to join it. I searched through some old posts about the security issues and saw some responses, so you might be able to find the answer without posting a question of your own.
tcanin00
Well-Known Member
I was hoping to use the 1999 Dakota harness and PCM I already have. Is there a way to see if my PCM has a security feature?
-
