magnum valve train questions

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lotharamc

lotharamc

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My 17 year old son just got a 2003 5.9 magnum and wants to use a Howard's cam with .555 lift at the valve. I know the stock springs wont work and the retainer to valve guide will need to be addressed. Is there anythng else that won't work? Rockers for instance...

Does a machine shop need to work on the retainer/guide clearance or can I grind and deburr?

This project is completely funded by my son so we are trying to cut as many corners as we can but keeping it reliable.

Any thoughts on the valve train in general considering the amount of lift?
 
the hughes 1199 spring/retainer/lock kit will get you there as far as lift and not machining the spring pocket. however, above .500 lift is where you run into problems on the magnum heads with guide to retainer clearance.

*sometimes* you're in the clear, sometimes not but with .555 lift i'd doubt it, so absolutely check and adjust as necessary. personally, i'd have a machine shop undertake the work.

the rockers *might* need some clearance ground on the inside to clear the top of the spring/retainer. but i'd call that a perfect excuse to upgrade to roller rockers...
 
junkyardhero said:
the hughes 1199 spring/retainer/lock kit will get you there as far as lift and not machining the spring pocket. however, above .500 lift is where you run into problems on the magnum heads with guide to retainer clearance.

*sometimes* you're in the clear, sometimes not but with .555 lift i'd doubt it, so absolutely check and adjust as necessary. personally, i'd have a machine shop undertake the work.

the rockers *might* need some clearance ground on the inside to clear the top of the spring/retainer. but i'd call that a perfect excuse to upgrade to roller rockers...
Click to expand...


If you are going to modify the guides, then buy the proper tool.

You can use it with a good hand drill but if you snag it your wrists may have an issue.
 
Agree with above. Buy the tool and cut the guides yourself after measuring. It’s fairly easy. The “consensus” is that the magnums will run in to interference around .540, I’ve personally run .530 and didn’t run in to problems. Also, you can use Chevy stud mount rockers for a cheap upgrade with a stud kit.

Valve Guide Cutting Tools - Free Shipping on Orders Over $109 at Summit Racing
 
With the Chevy rockers are there any issues with alignment or keeping them straight since they are a ball pivot instead of a barrel?
 
lotharamc said:
With the Chevy rockers are there any issues with alignment or keeping them straight since they are a ball pivot instead of a barrel?
Click to expand...
LS rockers are not ball pivot, & that's usually the swap....why would You swap regular SBC rockers on?
 
My son runs .575 lift with stock magnum rockers. He has used it daily for work over 4 years with no problems. No need to change to chevy rockers. We did cut the guides, used Hughes retainers, and lunati springs #73949.
 
lotharamc said:
My 17 year old son just got a 2003 5.9 magnum and wants to use a Howard's cam with .555 lift at the valve. I know the stock springs wont work and the retainer to valve guide will need to be addressed. Is there anythng else that won't work? Rockers for instance...

Does a machine shop need to work on the retainer/guide clearance or can I grind and deburr?

This project is completely funded by my son so we are trying to cut as many corners as we can but keeping it reliable.

Any thoughts on the valve train in general considering the amount of lift?
Click to expand...
I just went through the magnum valve guide clearance issue. Hughes
Has a set of retainers that will provide . 540 clearance. They may be other manufacturers of retainers out there.
Their 1110 springs are good to .550 lift.
Info from a ph call to Hughes
 
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There no "other retainers", what Hughes sells is it, unless You want to install longer valves.
Magnum lock grooves are very high on the stem with a short tip length, Hughes removes some of the retainer meat below the locks & fattens it a little for support, .540" lift is it unless You;
A) Cut down the guides
B) Use longer stem valves.....
which are 5/16" BTW, not 8mm,
so if You swap valves 8mm will require resizing the guides & different locks etc.
 
Killer6 said:
There no "other retainers", what Hughes sells is it, unless You want to install longer valves.
Magnum lock grooves are very high on the stem with a short tip length, Hughes removes some of the retainer meat below the locks & fattens it a little for support, .540" lift is it unless You;
A) Cut down the guides
B) Use longer stem valves.....
which are 5/16" BTW, not 8mm,
so if You swap valves 8mm will require resizing the guides & different locks etc.
Click to expand...
at the top of this, are you saying that Hughes has the only retainers?

Currently the plan is to cut down the guides and use the Hughes retainers with stock rockers and I found trick flow springs rated/sized like the Hughes springs.
Thoughts?
 
lotharamc said:
at the top of this, are you saying that Hughes has the only retainers?

Currently the plan is to cut down the guides and use the Hughes retainers with stock rockers and I found trick flow springs rated/sized like the Hughes springs.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...

hughes has a kit designed for just the thing you're trying to do here: hughes 1199 kit

it's good to .650 lift w/o coil bind, and the #'s will work up to .550 lift. so beyond cutting down your guide for clearance you should be good, without additional machine work needed to fit the springs.
 
lotharamc said:
at the top of this, are you saying that Hughes has the only retainers?

Currently the plan is to cut down the guides and use the Hughes retainers with stock rockers and I found trick flow springs rated/sized like the Hughes springs.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
No, I mentioned them only because they solved my problem, and the price was right, definitely could be others
 
lotharamc said:
at the top of this, are you saying that Hughes has the only retainers?

Currently the plan is to cut down the guides and use the Hughes retainers with stock rockers and I found trick flow springs rated/sized like the Hughes springs.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
No, I'm saying that the little bit of extra lift clearance those retainers give is all that is possible, no matter who makes them.
 
Killer6 said:
No, I'm saying that the little bit of extra lift clearance those retainers give is all that is possible, no matter who makes them.
Click to expand...
Don't know ??
Going with what
Hughes Engines said. ill measure it out and let you know. I'm currently at about 20 thou clearance
Thanks
 
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In the end, the amount of money is of importance. My 17 year old son is funding this thing and isn't going to drop big $ on the valvetrain as he has to spread his meeger earnings on the whole build. If he can achieve the .555 lift on stock rockers it helps. If the Hughes retainers get us there great. If the other brand springs save $50. That is s big win.

We re budgeting this whole thing before buying ANY nonstock parts... So, if say this valvetrain ends up costing $300+. That might mean no headers, or do we have to go for a "smaller" cam to keep he headers.

This is a teaching moment about money, patience, compromise (on goals if necessary), knowledge, finding said knowledge and mixing it all together.

Im an AMC guy so I have to search for these mopar details along with him.
 
lotharamc said:
In the end, the amount of money is of importance. My 17 year old son is funding this thing and isn't going to drop big $ on the valvetrain as he has to spread his meeger earnings on the whole build. If he can achieve the .555 lift on stock rockers it helps. If the Hughes retainers get us there great. If the other brand springs save $50. That is s big win.

We re budgeting this whole thing before buying ANY nonstock parts... So, if say this valvetrain ends up costing $300+. That might mean no headers, or do we have to go for a "smaller" cam to keep he headers.

This is a teaching moment about money, patience, compromise (on goals if necessary), knowledge, finding said knowledge and mixing it all together.

Im an AMC guy so I have to search for these mopar details along with him.
Click to expand...


Why all the lift if your son is on a budget?

Trying to make stock rockers of any kind take that lift is iffy at best.

I would get the lift down to .515ish and send it.
 
lotharamc said:
In the end, the amount of money is of importance. My 17 year old son is funding this thing and isn't going to drop big $ on the valvetrain as he has to spread his meeger earnings on the whole build. If he can achieve the .555 lift on stock rockers it helps. If the Hughes retainers get us there great. If the other brand springs save $50. That is s big win.

We re budgeting this whole thing before buying ANY nonstock parts... So, if say this valvetrain ends up costing $300+. That might mean no headers, or do we have to go for a "smaller" cam to keep he headers.

This is a teaching moment about money, patience, compromise (on goals if necessary), knowledge, finding said knowledge and mixing it all together.

Im an AMC guy so I have to search for these mopar details along with him.
Click to expand...


Maybe you could ask friends who are car guys if they know anyone with a guide cutter. Look around for used headers and intakes etc. Mostly have fun building it with your son. I have three sons, and they are all into mopars. I can't tell you all the good times wev'e had.
 
Newbomb Turk said:
Why all the lift if your son is on a budget?

Trying to make stock rockers of any kind take that lift is iffy at best.

I would get the lift down to .515ish and send it.
Click to expand...


You know, actually if he has a cam core he might be better off calling Oregon Camshaft and getting a regrind. 2 of my sons did that on their 1st motor builds. I am sure it would help with the young man's budget.

For the OP : Cam Grinding, Camshafts, Racing & Performance Equipment,
 
i just helped a friend with his magnum build and he picked up a regrind from oregon. the 2204 grind, it's 484 lift w/ 214/221 @ .50 along with the hughes 1199 kit, install was a breeze.

with this cam, stock rockers are no problem but you'll likely need to get longer pushrods-- he did on his-- but they're inexpensive and easy to obtain.

figure on doing cam bearings and heads will be a coin flip as to whether they'll be any good or need work, etc.
 
junkyardhero said:
i just helped a friend with his magnum build and he picked up a regrind from oregon. the 2204 grind, it's 484 lift w/ 214/221 @ .50 along with the hughes 1199 kit, install was a breeze.
Click to expand...
This came above is very similar to the lunati in my Javelin. Flat tappet though

Son wants lumpy angry sound, more than dads. SER2226ALN-10 is the Hughes cam he's after. The 222/226 duration with 110 separation is what he wants. We're trying to make that happen. Maybe we won't.

Isn't quicker ramp rates allowing for more lift over the same duration part of having a roller cam?

Again, maybe it will end up being too costly for ALL the parts to use this cam. Thats what we are trying to find out.
 
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