Melling pump cover bolt torque

-
Yep, if just the gears and the inner housing where the outer gear rides where the only thing coated would have been perfect and no issues. When I used the plastic gauge I meassured the inner gear clearance not the outer, should have checked both. But it's all fixed now, just need to go find the plug.
 
Last edited:
I think I found that plug at my local NAPA dealer. I can't recall which way it goes in, but if the spring sits IN the cup, then the depth is obviously critical.
 
Yeah think o reilys has the plug too, it's a 5/8". Has anyone meassured the depth, I thought it just went flush to the start of the machined area pasted the cotter pin
 
Yes it does.....the cup goes in so the spring sits in the cup, so the spring compression is set by the machined stop AND the cup depth. If you invert the, the spring is so compressed that the pressure relief valve never opens.

Do you not have the original cup for a reference? I think I tossed my last one...
 
yellow rose said:
Like is said...it depends on the coating they used. If it's abradable like they use on the Pistons it is self clearancing and the particles do no damage to the engine.

This coating has been out long enough to be better known.
Click to expand...

I know what you mean about being out there long enough that a lot more people should know about it, the stuff I have came from a company that coated things with it in the 80's and it was very expensive, one year they did every bearing in Bobby Rahal's car, not sure if it made a difference but nobody in racing really knew about it or used it. It was developed in the 60's for outer space and goes into the pores of the metal and doesn't come out, and it is very slippery. I've done pistons with it and carbon doesn't even stick to it it just wipes off with a rag. Clearancing on the pistons would be nice but when does it stop wearing? and if it is a plastic that is baked on it's hard to believe the waste from it wont plug the filter or get in other places.
 
brian6pac said:
I know what you mean about being out there long enough that a lot more people should know about it, the stuff I have came from a company that coated things with it in the 80's and it was very expensive, one year they did every bearing in Bobby Rahal's car, not sure if it made a difference but nobody in racing really knew about it or used it. It was developed in the 60's for outer space and goes into the pores of the metal and doesn't come out, and it is very slippery. I've done pistons with it and carbon doesn't even stick to it it just wipes off with a rag. Clearancing on the pistons would be nice but when does it stop wearing? and if it is a plastic that is baked on it's hard to believe the waste from it wont plug the filter or get in other places.
Click to expand...


It stops wearing when you are at basically at .000 running clearance. They also make a coating that can add up to .020 on diameter. I almost coated my Pistons on my last engine but I didn't want to wait.

Kicking my stupid self for not doing it. Ring seal has to improve at the very least.
 
brian6pac said:
Only problem with that is the pump is in the pan! Pull the pan to adjust?
Click to expand...

nm9stheham said:
Yes it does.....the cup goes in so the spring sits in the cup, so the spring compression is set by the machined stop AND the cup depth. If you invert the, the spring is so compressed that the pressure relief valve never opens.

Do you not have the original cup for a reference? I think I tossed my last one...
Click to expand...


Yes I do still have the old one. Thanks marcohotrod, will look for it and grt it ordered of find one.
 
yellow rose said:
It stops wearing when you are at basically at .000 running clearance. They also make a coating that can add up to .020 on diameter. I almost coated my Pistons on my last engine but I didn't want to wait.

Kicking my stupid self for not doing it. Ring seal has to improve at the very least.
Click to expand...

No piston rock would be nice, I worked for Cadillac in 2003 when we had a piston and rings recall on the northstar, the carbon got built up on piston and would hit the head causing a knock when cold. They redesigned the piston and we had to change them. The old pistons and the new pistons had a lot of rock to them and were really loose in the bore, Cadillac said that is normal we didn't even hone the cylinders and they looked like new even at 100,000 miles. When I questioned them about ring seal they said they will seal fine even with all the piston rock it wont effect the seal, I worked for Cadillac for 10 years and the northstars used about 1/2 to 3/4 gts oil between changes and GM said this is normal from vapors going through the PCV system. It's hard to believe the rings seal as low as the tension was and the way the pistons rock, I'm sure they are tighter when it's up to temp.
 
I remember the clean outs in those North star motors, I worked for hummer, it was on the cadallic side, used to help test drive the cars afterward when the hummers were slow and I'm talking the real hummers h1, but also worked on the wanna be h2 as well. Couldn't believe the build up those got.
 
Matts440 said:
Yes I do still have the old one. Thanks marcohotrod, will look for it and grt it ordered of find one.
Click to expand...

I had a problem with a ford motor we built about 20 years ago the cotter pin that holds the cup in got cut in half and the cup, spring and piston popped out of the pump and the piston got between the counterweight of the crank and the cyl wall and cracked the block. So now I always drill the next size and install a hardened roll pin then safety wire it so it cant come out.
 
Matts440 said:
I remember the clean outs in those North star motors, I worked for hummer, it was on the cadallic side, used to help test drive the cars afterward when the hummers were slow and I'm talking the real hummers h1, but also worked on the wanna be h2 as well. Couldn't believe the build up those got.
Click to expand...

The H1's were really cool one of our customers had one and we got to check it out one day, they are really bad ***.
 
Yeah they were, got to bring two home for the long test drive, man they are so fun to drive. Heavy as all get up, nothing was lihht on them.
 
Matts440 said:
Well that's why I ran the pump on the bench till its clear before I install it on the engine, I did high and low speeds with the drill, took it all apart again, cleaned everything off again, carb cleaned the housing, dried it, reassemble with engine oil again, torqued the cap down.
Click to expand...

Hate to say it, but your carb cleaner may have damaged or removed that coating altogether. Double check with Melling.
 
Melling didn't coat it another company did, will check with them about that, thank you I meant brake clean not as harsh as carb.
 
Donate the pump to the scrap heap. Get a new pump. If you go to a high volume get a new hardened drive gear by Milodon. Standard or even the seal power shafts sheer the hex off when using a high volume pump. Unless you have a real nice original mopar shaft from the 70's when the were made in the USA
 
Oldmanmopar said:
Donate the pump to the scrap heap. Get a new pump. If you go to a high volume get a new hardened drive gear by Milodon. Standard or even the seal power shafts sheer the hex off when using a high volume pump. Unless you have a real nice original mopar shaft from the 70's when the were made in the USA
Click to expand...


Scrap it because it's coated? That makes no sense.
 
yellow rose said:
Scrap it because it's coated? That makes no sense.
Click to expand...
I never put a used or coated pump in a motor. If its wore that bad that it needs coating get a new one. Where do you think that coating ends up as it comes off. I get 60-80 PSI cold with a new pump and a fresh build. You all want to coat the inside of a pump and send it through the motor go right ahead. Not me I will stick to the new pump. When an oil pump comes out it never goes back in my motor. I don't care how long its been in there.

My $30,000 motor and a coated used pump is what does not make sense to me. Oh and lets scrape some of that coating off so the pump turns. What a joke. get real LOL
 
I didn't coat a used pump it was a new one, and it make it more efficiency with closer tolerances. And as i stated before was advised to do to it by my machine shop QMP racing to help with low speed oiling to feed not only the engine but both turbos as well
 
Oldmanmopar said:
I never put a used or coated pump in a motor. If its wore that bad that it needs coating get a new one. Where do you think that coating ends up as it comes off. I get 60-80 PSI cold with a new pump and a fresh build. You all want to coat the inside of a pump and send it through the motor go right ahead. Not me I will stick to the new pump. When an oil pump comes out it never goes back in my motor. I don't care how long its been in there.

My $30,000 motor and a coated used pump is what does not make sense to me. Oh and lets scrape some of that coating off so the pump turns. What a joke. get real LOL
Click to expand...


Guys like you set the hobby back decades. Technology comes from the top down. You evidently know little about coatings and what they are for.

Stay in the 1970's. Sounds like it's where you belong. And make sure you use 1970's shocks, tires, cams, carbs, converters, clutches...the whole of it because time never moves on.


What is being done now was considered impossible just 25 years ago. That's ONE generation. If I said 25 years ago guys would be running .750 lift on street cars they would have 5150'd me and I still be in a runner room.


Sounds like YOU need to get real and open your thought process. Don't forget stud mounted rockers. That was all the **** back then. Rediculous.
 
Matts440 said:
I didn't coat a used pump it was a new one, and it make it more efficiency with closer tolerances. And as i stated before was advised to do to it by my machine shop QMP racing to help with low speed oiling to feed not only the engine but both turbos as well
Click to expand...


Don't let it bother you. Some of these guys are either stone aged thinkers or jealous that you have the bales to try something knew. Just ignore the nattering nabobs and ne'er do well wisenhiemers.

God hates a coward. Keep moving forward.
 
Oh I agree and they don't bother me, just pointed out what they think I did to what I actually did, but it would bring an worn pump back to spec, but would run a new pump. Some just need to do new research, my motor build is not a cheap one and even after my shop told me looked into myself, I do trust my shop.
 
yellow rose said:
Guys like you set the hobby back decades. Technology comes from the top down. You evidently know little about coatings and what they are for.

Stay in the 1970's. Sounds like it's where you belong. And make sure you use 1970's shocks, tires, cams, carbs, converters, clutches...the whole of it because time never moves on.


What is being done now was considered impossible just 25 years ago. That's ONE generation. If I said 25 years ago guys would be running .750 lift on street cars they would have 5150'd me and I still be in a runner room.


Sounds like YOU need to get real and open your thought process. Don't forget stud mounted rockers. That was all the **** back then. Rediculous.
Click to expand...

Far from old school here pal. We build motors. And do all our own machine work . block, heads, rockers , cranks ,And this one had six years of RPMs over 8000. It was like new when tore down. but got everything new again. If you are running a twin turbo with and internal pump than for god sake coat it twice. We would use a remote pump on motors boosted with that kind of power. 80 psi cold and a HV pump how much more oil do you need. Unless your bottom end is super lose from wear. get "King bearings"

DSCN0088.JPG


DSCN0104.JPG


DSCN0105.JPG


DSCN0190.JPG


DSCN0187.JPG


DSCN0185.JPG


DSCN0193.JPG


DSCN2804.JPG


DSCN2807.JPG


Steve 065.JPG
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top