BigStrok3
Mopar!
I bought a 22 challenger scat pack back in February. Still have my old cars but the challenger is more fun to drive. Just have to watch out with them because they are easy to steal.
modern muscle
- Thread starter ir3333
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SO..... everyone is telling me a 72 Duster is NOT modern muscle!??
OK so I am old....very old.
OK so I am old....very old.
I have a 2009 Challenger R/T, 6 speed manual. It is a great car, and gets 28 mpg cruising at 75mph on the highway. My wife has had a Charger R/T since 2012, given to Daughter in 2018 when we got a new Charger R/T to replace it, they both have got 30+ mpg cruising at 75 mph on trips. They are great road cars and have acceptable handling and acceleration even with a 5.7 and an automatic. All that said, the car I will keep to the very end is the 1966 Formula S Barracuda, with a 273, and with a 4 speed and a Hurst shifter.
SO..... everyone is telling me a 72 Duster is NOT modern muscle!??
OK so I am old....very old.
I always think of anything newer than the 70's as new.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Just my opinion, but I think modern muscle starts about 1986.
It's pretty subjective, but my definition of "Modern Muscle" means decent power (or better), EFI, OD, AC, Cruise, Power Windows, bigger brakes and handling, etc. Certainly there are gray areas, much like the definition of a "Muscle Car" is '72 and older even though the low compression motors started in '72 and single exhaust and cat's didn't start until '75.
So when the '86 Mustang GT came out with modern EFI and had a decent amount of power, it fits in my mind as the start of the "Modern Muscle" era. Note that to me "Modern Muscle" covers what the factory offered, not what someone could build. So a '73 Duster with a 5.7/T56/AC doesn't make it modern muscle even though it carries a modern motor. But an '82 Mustang with a Coyote swap might, but only because the chassis is the same as an '86. Lot's of gray.
It's pretty subjective, but my definition of "Modern Muscle" means decent power (or better), EFI, OD, AC, Cruise, Power Windows, bigger brakes and handling, etc. Certainly there are gray areas, much like the definition of a "Muscle Car" is '72 and older even though the low compression motors started in '72 and single exhaust and cat's didn't start until '75.
So when the '86 Mustang GT came out with modern EFI and had a decent amount of power, it fits in my mind as the start of the "Modern Muscle" era. Note that to me "Modern Muscle" covers what the factory offered, not what someone could build. So a '73 Duster with a 5.7/T56/AC doesn't make it modern muscle even though it carries a modern motor. But an '82 Mustang with a Coyote swap might, but only because the chassis is the same as an '86. Lot's of gray.
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
i think of those 80's-90's cars more a mid muscle.. they are what reignited it all though for sure..
DionR
Well-Known Member
They certainly aren't as fast as the Coyote, LS or G3 cars. I group them into modern muscle mostly because they were the start of the new HP wars and they had most of the creature comforts that I associate with modern muscle.
It could be argued that until they got faster than the BB cars of the late 60's or very early 70's, they could be argued to not be "muscle". But I still group them in even if in '87 a cheap 340 Duster could be easily as fast as a new GT off the showroom floor. But the GT was pretty fast and had AC.
Funny how time changes things. I had a Volare in '88 with a 318 that I pulled the AC off of when I did a 4bbl swap because it was extra weight. Now, I would keep the AC if at all possible.
DionR
Well-Known Member
I might add that I wouldn't group a 3rd gen Camaro with a 305 into the list even if it was an '86+. There are limits... 
I tell my wife, there is NO amount of old car high performance on any car built after 1972. She tells me, "my old cars just have old car BO!!"
I tell tell HER, that is the smell of raw POWER"!
The she repeats herself " Old car BO!" ( maybe its just the aroma of a mouse that been dead ALL winter!)
I tell tell HER, that is the smell of raw POWER"!
The she repeats herself " Old car BO!" ( maybe its just the aroma of a mouse that been dead ALL winter!)
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The definitions are fun to debate.
Guys, keep in mind that it’s probably time to open the category and allow more cars to be called muscle cars.
All of our cars are slow now. Just about any basic electric car would smoke any stock classic muscle car. The higher end EVs smoke every short of a pro stock and can pamper you with ac and a back massage while doing it. Yet muscle cars don’t seem to be any less exciting despite the unfavorable comparison. Not one damn bit.
So apparently, power and acceleration are no longer the defining characteristics of a muscle car. It’s 100% subjective experience. Of course they still need to give you a thrill when you open the throttle but the way they feel, look, sound, and smell makes all the difference.
So if that LS swapped Miata blasts out V8 noises and makes your spine tingle with each shift, it counts in my book.
Guys, keep in mind that it’s probably time to open the category and allow more cars to be called muscle cars.
All of our cars are slow now. Just about any basic electric car would smoke any stock classic muscle car. The higher end EVs smoke every short of a pro stock and can pamper you with ac and a back massage while doing it. Yet muscle cars don’t seem to be any less exciting despite the unfavorable comparison. Not one damn bit.
So apparently, power and acceleration are no longer the defining characteristics of a muscle car. It’s 100% subjective experience. Of course they still need to give you a thrill when you open the throttle but the way they feel, look, sound, and smell makes all the difference.
So if that LS swapped Miata blasts out V8 noises and makes your spine tingle with each shift, it counts in my book.
It is not always the speed of the ride but the thrill of the ride. Not everyone understands this. Maybe some of us are just backwards sometimes??
I've said this before, the old muscle cars seem to have a soul that the new stuff just doesn't. Maybe in 20 years that will change. Today anyone with a decent credit score can walk into a dealership and drive away with a 500 to 700+ horsepower ride, but it's not always that simple to get behind the wheel of any 60s or 70s high performance car. You either have to build your own or have a boat load of cash to buy one someone else built.
I tell my wife the old classics have soul. She asks "what does that smell like???? Three days old fries left in the classic in the summer!?"
ir3333
Well-Known Member
Realistically you can buy 3 or 4 used 300 HP V6 Camaros, Challengers or Mustangs for the price of one nice 340 Dart or Duster. Arguably the modern vehicle will be faster, safer, more comfortable, handle better and get better mileage...probably 30 mpg or better with air conditioning. But I think the V6's may fall more into the sports car category and you have to spin them to make power. Still, their is no replacing blowing the tires out at will with a small cam 340! If want Modern muscle in a big power V8 you need deeper pockets.
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