Mopar Muscle Magazine 360

-
To the OP, if you are looking for a good cam for a 6000 shift point in a 360, the smallest thumper cam quotes a range of 1900 to 5600 rpm. That tells me it would like an airgap intake, 1 5/8 headers and probably a 750 carb. My 408 made 504 hp with the middle sized thumpr cam, an airgap intake , and. 1 3/4 headers. Peak hp was 5700 rpm. In a 360 with 6000 rpm shifts, it is very important to build very good torque where the rpm drops back to f o r best performance.
 
AJ/FormS said:
That magazine engine looks pretty good to me;
Except maybe the power-peak at 6000rpm. That kindof demands a 6800/7000rpm 1-2 shift,
Click to expand...
You are insane!
There is no reason to run to 6800+
 
RAMM said:
Hate that cam. Then again maybe the engine wrapped around it is wrong too. J.Rob
Click to expand...

Sorry thats how my car came when I bought this summer, next time l'll try better lol
 
1st one 300 hp create the mod is edelbrock heads and something like a 275 cam added

Screenshot_20171212-101519.png

2nd 380hp create engine
Not bad for a truck long block with a cam intake and headers. I would spent my money different than the original owner. But works good for what it is.

Screenshot_20171212-084647.png


By 2500 rpm making /6 guys jealous
By 3000 rpm making 273 guys jealous
By 3500 rpm making 318 guys jealous
By 4000 rpm making the 300hp create guys
Jealous and I still have 2000 rpm to go lol.
 
Last edited:
Just to be clear...I chose the cam! It was my choice, and I wanted to use a cam that I believe would make great power everywhere in the operating range I wanted (2500-6500rpm), and also keep cranking psi in check. A custom cam would have made better power in certain spots, but difficult to make more power everywhere from bottom to top.
If you stray away from the combo we layed out, be careful...as mentioned with an iron head compression is pushed with 10.4:1...that's why we put that cam in almost straight up!
Also, cams are being talked about very cavalier....not good! You cannot just get close with cam timing, and have the same results. Not even close!!
If you plan on changing cams, you will most likely either need to drop compression, or play with the installed specs of the cam. This can change the characteristics of that cam very noticeably.
Edelbrock heads OOTB, will be down on power over the iron heads we used by about 20HP.
Brian
 
ou812 said:
Just to be clear...I chose the cam! It was my choice, and I wanted to use a cam that I believe would make great power everywhere in the operating range I wanted (2500-6500rpm), and also keep cranking psi in check. A custom cam would have made better power in certain spots, but difficult to make more power everywhere from bottom to top.
If you stray away from the combo we layed out, be careful...as mentioned with an iron head compression is pushed with 10.4:1...that's why we put that cam in almost straight up!
Also, cams are being talked about very cavalier....not good! You cannot just get close with cam timing, and have the same results. Not even close!!
If you plan on changing cams, you will most likely either need to drop compression, or play with the installed specs of the cam. This can change the characteristics of that cam very noticeably.
Edelbrock heads OOTB, will be down on power over the iron heads we used by about 20HP.
Brian
Click to expand...
Well the man has spoken! I guess I'm following the blueprint he laid out. Thanks for your input Brian! This forum is awesome!
 
TrailerParkGinger said:
I would probably never take it past 6 grand anyway, unless the occasional strip time. I'm looking for a really fun street car, with occasional strip time. I'll probably do a few oiling mods anyway just to make it live as long as it can.
Click to expand...
If you're NOT going to stretch it out to plump up your powerband, then there is no point in running such a "big cam", because
A)you are sacrificing average power at the track, and
B) there is a good chance that the next smaller cam will have the same average power when stretched out properly to a lower peak rpm, and the low-rpm power of the smaller cam may very likely be stronger, making the use of a 4000TC not necessary, and
C) like you said; your 4.10s with the 29s are equivalent to 3.75s with 26.5s. So a little more bottom end may be appreciated for a guy who wants to be gentle on his engine. And the truth is how often are you gonna stretch it out to 7000?, which in your combo is pretty much right on 57mph at the top of first. Yeah, on paper, it's a great combo. But those tires with street suspension,are gonna spin all the way thru first gear,with that engine....... and also with one that has two sizes smaller of a cam, with properly matched compression. That begs the question " how much quicker will a 455hp engine be than a 420hp engine?, from zero to 60,in street trim? And what do you have to give up to get that fraction of a second.
D) and then, 3650/455=8.0wp and that is good for about 116 mph. Which is good for about 11.5-ET with a SuperStock suspension and the right gears. But with your street set-up maybe low 12s, say 12.1, or slower if you shift at 6000.
But; 3650/420=8.69pw, which translates to about 113mph and a possible ET of 11.7 with SS suspension, and possibly 12.3 in street trim if you find the right shift-rpms. So again, what are you giving up for .2 second ET?

IDK man, I'm at 3650/400=.9125 or about 113mph. Which in street trim is a theoretical ET of 12.4. That's quick enough and fast enough for this cowboy.And it makes an awesome stick-shift streeter. I'm set-up to drop 190 pounds in a few minutes, and that translates to 3460/400=8.65pw or 115mph and that's a possible12.2 in street-trim, and a goal of 11.5 in SS trim.
She idles down to 550 in gear, driving around the parking lot.And,She breaks the 295s loose at any speed up to 50mph/4200 rpm. And Once broke, it spins till I shift. And It never overheats. And It doesn't buck, surge or misbehave in any way. I'm just saying.
Would I like a street 455? Sure. Would I build one,not with an automatic. Probably not with a stick either. Been there done that. Jus saying.
 
Last edited:
AJ/FormS said:
If you're NOT going to stretch it out to plump up your powerband, then there is no point in running such a "big cam", because
A)you are sacrificing average power at the track, and
B) there is a good chance that the next smaller cam will have the same average power when stretched out properly to a lower peak rpm, and the low-rpm power of the smaller cam may very likely be stronger, making the use of a 4000TC not necessary, and
C) like you said; your 4.10s with the 29s are equivalent to 3.75s with 26.5s. So a little more bottom end may be appreciated for a guy who wants to be gentle on his engine. And the truth is how often are you gonna stretch it out to 7000?, which in your combo is pretty much right on 57mph at the top of first. Yeah, on paper, it's a great combo. But those tires with street suspension,are gonna spin all the way thru first gear,with that engine....... and also with one that has two sizes smaller of a cam, with properly matched compression. That begs the question " how much quicker will a 455hp engine be than a 420hp engine?, from zero to 60,in street trim? And what do you have to give up to get that fraction of a second.
D) and then, 3650/455=8.0wp and that is good for about 116 mph. Which is good for about 11.5-ET with a SuperStock suspension and the right gears. But with your street set-up maybe low 12s, say 12.1, or slower if you shift at 6000.
But; 3650/420=8.69pw, which translates to about 113mphand a possible ET of 11.7 with SS suspension, and possibly 12.3 in street trim if you find the right shift-rpms. So again, what are you giving up for .2 second ET?

IDK man, I'm at 3650/400=.9125 or about 113mph. Which in street trim is a theoretical ET of 12.4. That's quick enough and fast enough for this cowboy.And it makes an awesome streeter.
Jus saying
Click to expand...
Well I don't have superstock suspension, thats for sure. I just have the heavy duty ESPOs 2" over stock with the 318 torsion bars. I plan to stiffen the chassis with connectors and torque boxes. I'll have to see what I want before I order the cam and such. It's a lot to take in from all these knowledgeable sources on this board. If it'd be safe I'd rev it to 6500-7k I would, nothing sounds better than a high strung small block.What oiling mods would need to be done? Extensive ?
 
Last edited:
ou812 said:
Just to be clear...I chose the cam! It was my choice, and I wanted to use a cam that I believe would make great power everywhere in the operating range I wanted (2500-6500rpm), and also keep cranking psi in check. A custom cam would have made better power in certain spots, but difficult to make more power everywhere from bottom to top.
If you stray away from the combo we layed out, be careful...as mentioned with an iron head compression is pushed with 10.4:1...that's why we put that cam in almost straight up!
Also, cams are being talked about very cavalier....not good! You cannot just get close with cam timing, and have the same results. Not even close!!
If you plan on changing cams, you will most likely either need to drop compression, or play with the installed specs of the cam. This can change the characteristics of that cam very noticeably.
Edelbrock heads OOTB, will be down on power over the iron heads we used by about 20HP.
Brian
Click to expand...
Brian,
Looks like in recommending that smaller cam i overlooked the fact that it would probably require a different piston to get compression down to a liveable level. My bad. If i figured it right, to get cranking compression down to about what the mid sized thumpr cam produces, the smaller thumpr cam would need to have the compression dropped to about 9.9? Would the smaller cam be a good a fit for 6000 shifts? I assumed it would since it is four degrees smaller with the same lsa. All this would be assuming an installed centerline of 107 like the other cam.
 
Last edited:
You got that right! 7200thru the Dynomaxers, and dual 3" all-the-way pipes sounds awesome , and when my son drives it I tell him not to hold back, it sounds even better from the roadside.
Properly set-up, 7000 is easy-peasy for a 360. Mine has been doing it since year 2000. and has over 100,000 miles on it. Almost not a day went by that it didn't hit 7000 at least a few times. I'm geared for 7000=51 mph,and again at 66mph. But.......the little cam in mine peaks at about 5300, so it wouldn't need to go 7000. 6000 would be plenty, in terms of putting down max average horsepower. But .. firstly, it doesn't matter, the tires are spinning, and secondly, the screaming 367 is such a pleasure to listen to all 5 or so seconds of it at a time,lol.
A person might wonder why I have never done something about the traction issue. Well, I find so much pleasure in sliding the little Barracuda everywhere, that I won't give that up. And I don't streetrace it, so it doesn't have to be quick. It only has to make me grin. I built it for me,and for my son, who was 16 in year 2000. We choose our spots. Nobody eggs us into doing really stupid stuff downtown. And lest you think I'm a dangerous driver, in all those years and miles, I accumulated just two tickets. And in both cases the cop said something like; "I can't let you get away with that, since you did it right in front of me, but you sure do it good". One incident was on private property. The other in a deserted area. Up here the monetary amount of the ticket comes in a range, that the cop has discretion to choose, and in both cases I got off at the cheapest level. I love sliding,and I'll have to get a lot older to stop that silliness,lol.
 
AJ/FormS said:
You got that right! 7200thru the Dynomaxers, and dual 3" all-the-way pipes sounds awesome , and when my son drives it I tell him not to hold back, it sounds even better from the roadside.
Properly set-up, 7000 is easy-peasy for a 360. Mine has been doing it since year 2000. and has over 100,000 miles on it. Almost not a day went by that it didn't hit 7000 at least a few times. I'm geared for 7000=51 mph,and again at 66mph. But.......the little cam in mine peaks at about 5300, so it wouldn't need to go 7000. 6000 would be plenty, in terms of putting down max average horsepower. But .. firstly, it doesn't matter, the tires are spinning, and secondly, the screaming 367 is such a pleasure to listen to all 5 or so seconds of it at a time,lol.
A person might wonder why I have never done something about the traction issue. Well, I find so much pleasure in sliding the little Barracuda everywhere, that I won't give that up. And I don't streetrace it, so it doesn't have to be quick. It only has to make me grin. I built it for me,and for my son, who was 16 in year 2000. We choose our spots. Nobody eggs us into doing really stupid stuff downtown. And lest you think I'm a dangerous driver, in all those years and miles, I accumulated just two tickets. And in both cases the cop said something like; "I can't let you get away with that, since you did it right in front of me, but you sure do it good". One incident was on private property. The other in a deserted area. Up here the monetary amount of the ticket comes in a range, that the cop has discretion to choose, and in both cases I got off at the cheapest level. I love sliding,and I'll have to get a lot older to stop that silliness,lol.
Click to expand...
Haha! I kinda wanna rev to 7grand now lol. I think I'll just keep the thumpr and rev the snot out of it if its that entertaining! My 255s won't stand a chance. If its safe to rev to 7k I'm a lot more tempted to do so. Sorry I don't have an Abody, yet! I want a dart something fierce. My dad drove a 73 slant Dart for years and it was reliable as hell.

IMG_5121.JPG
 
There is no reason to shift point a SB mopar or any engine to insane RPM's if it stops making power 1000+ rpm lower the shift point. The one reason to spin it higher is if you are running a gear that requires it to spin out the back of the 1/4 mile in high gear.

Some cars/engines like being shifted slighlty above the peak HP observed on a dyno. In the 200-400 rpm range. I've never seen a set up that liked 500 or more rpm.

I used to drive a lot of cars many years ago at test and tunes and street racing. I'd ask most of the owners/drivers where they shifted. Almost every time I would shift the car at a lower RPM and the car would pick up et. DOH!!!! One car I got told it was shifted at 5900. Knowing the set up, shifted at 5400, car picked up .15 ET at the stripe. Go figure. It was a BB mopar :) More RPM without benefit is just unnecessary wear and tear on the mill.
 
Last edited:
TrailerParkGinger said:
Well I don't have superstock suspension, thats for sure. I just have the heavy duty ESPOs 2" over stock with the 318 torsion bars. I plan to stiffen the chassis with connectors and torque boxes. I'll have to see what I want before I order the cam and such. It's a lot to take in from all these knowledgeable sources on this board. If it'd be safe I'd rev it to 6500-7k I would, nothing sounds better than a high strung small block.What oiling mods would need to be done? Extensive ?
Click to expand...

Read this, study it, ask questions.

Any one interested in the oiling mods I did?
 
crackedback said:
There is no reason to shift point a SB mopar or any engine to insane RPM's if it stops making power 1000+ rpm lower the shift point. The one reason to spin it higher is if you are running a gear that requires it to spin out the back of the 1/4 mile in high gear.

Some cars/engines like being shifted slighlty above the peak HP observed on a dyno. In the 200-400 rpm range. I've never seen a set up that liked 500 or more rpm.

I used to drive a lot of cars many years ago at test and tunes and street racing. I'd ask most of the owners/drivers where they shifted. Almost every time I would shift the car at a lower RPM and the car would pick up et. DOH!!!! One car I got told it was shifted at 5900. Knowing the set up, shifted at 5400, car picked up .15 ET at the stripe. Go figure. It was a BB mopar :) More RPM without benefit is just unnecessary wear and tear on the mill.
Click to expand...


I heard exactly what your saying but looking at the 380hp create motors dyno numbers it looks like higher rpm shifts would work, mot doubting just trying to figure out.

From 5000 rpm 296 hp to 5400 rpm peak 409 hp to 6000 rpm 295 hp. To me thats pretty flat the 14 hp difference you wouldn't think matter much.

If I shift at 5400 rpm that would put me at 3200 rpm in 2nd about 250 hp if I took it to 6000 rpm that would be 3500 rpm 277 hp.
The loss of 14 hp on top you would think it would be worth to gain at least 27 hp on bottom. Im sure you could go 6200 or so before lossing tons compared to what you gain down low. I dont know about shifting at 7000 rpm though.
 
Me likey 7000, it sounds so crazy to hear a Mopar in that territory. I go there just to be there. I bust the tires loose and keep it there for 5,6,7,or 8 seconds,jamming thru the gears............ Then stop, turn around, and do it again .
 
AJ/FormS said:
Me likey 7000, it sounds so crazy to hear a Mopar in that territory. I go there just to be there. I bust the tires loose and keep it there for 5,6,7,or 8 seconds,jamming thru the gears............ Then stop, turn around, and do it again .
Click to expand...

Plus you got eddy heads ?
If my magnums can breath to 6000 rpm your must be able to well past that.

My cousin late model pulls to 7000 rpm 367 through a 2bbl.
 
crackedback said:
There is no reason to shift point a SB mopar or any engine to insane RPM's if it stops making power 1000+ rpm lower the shift point. The one reason to spin it higher is if you are running a gear that requires it to spin out the back of the 1/4 mile in high gear.

Some cars/engines like being shifted slighlty above the peak HP observed on a dyno. In the 200-400 rpm range. I've never seen a set up that liked 500 or more rpm.

I used to drive a lot of cars many years ago at test and tunes and street racing. I'd ask most of the owners/drivers where they shifted. Almost every time I would shift the car at a lower RPM and the car would pick up et. DOH!!!! One car I got told it was shifted at 5900. Knowing the set up, shifted at 5400, car picked up .15 ET at the stripe. Go figure. It was a BB mopar :) More RPM without benefit is just unnecessary wear and tear on the mill.
Click to expand...

You know how to make things simple..: Make passes ,data log E.T. strip slips ,and do one tune change, at a time ....and log it .
You build an experience, and you remember it...
 
It would see that engine recipe was purpose built for the Thumpr camshaft and thus is most efficient with it. I don't think I would feck it up.
 
RustyRatRod said:
It would see that engine recipe was purpose built for the Thumpr camshaft and thus is most efficient with it. I don't think I would feck it up.
Click to expand...
Brian likes to apply them to builds , and advances / retards initial cam timing ,as needed .
ROB : That narrow (108 l.c. ) Crower aggressive ramp hydraulic tappet cam series : "Hydraulic Hauler " They advertise two : The quicker ramp one, is the better of the two. Seems they are mixing older generic grinds, with the 108 l.c. grinds. Just a heads up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top