My 360 sounds like a sewing machine

Small Block Mopar Engine

  1. Dodge72

    Dodge72 Odd one out

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    So I finally got my 360 in my 72 Dart wrapped up abs took her on a maden voyage just around the neighborhood. Things were all good, oil pressure was good, temp was good, just a few things like timing and kickdown to be adjusted. Me being a little over cautious on my first engine build, noticed it sounded awfully like my solid lifter slant 6 previously: a sewing machine at idle to around 2000+ RPM.

    360, RV cam. Hydraulic roller (factory roller block, not Magnum)
    Stock non adjustable rocker shafts
    Custom length pushrods for 050" preload
    Stock Melling hydraulic rollers
    Stock valves
    Rebuilt iron heads, 9.5:1 compression.

    Oil I am using is Castrol 5w30 Dino oil. It sounds like it at warm, and most likely when cold (I honestly can't remember). Oil is definitely getting to everything. I might have a touch too much oil, like a quart extra(I'll have to drain it). I checked pushrods, all are rotating and are straight. I tried to push on the lifters and they felt solid : does this mean they are pumped up? Rockers didn't have excessive wear. Finally, I checked the valves with a straight edge and a flashlight... And there's light shining on the exhaust valves. With a feeler gauge, they appear to be 015" shorter than the intake, uniform between all of them. Could this be my issue? When I went to measure pushrods, I measured about 6-8 of both intake and exhaust and took the average. I know I've read many problems with hydraulic rollers, but it was mostly with retrofit stuff. I just want to make sure there's nothing wise I should check. Perhaps I should get some pushrods with an additional 015"? Engine sounds great otherwise, and the oil change after the initial run showed nothing but break in stuff.
     
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    • 72Dart6pack

      72Dart6pack Harder Better Faster Stronger.

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      So now you have a 1972 Singer. Lol
       
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      • Dodge72

        Dodge72 Odd one out

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        Ha!! It pairs wonderful with my 1906 Singer !
         
      • Plymouth 65

        Plymouth 65 Floorable Deplorable

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        Based on your information above you state 0.050 preload with stamped steel rockers. The statement that your exhaust valves sit about 0 015 lower than the intake valves. That should give you 0.035 preload on the exhaust lifters. I believe that should be enough but you may want to confirm with the lifter manufacturer. 65'
         
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        • mopowers

          mopowers Well-Known Member

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          What cam is it? Manufacturer?
           
        • Dodge72

          Dodge72 Odd one out

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          Yes that's correct, sorry if it was long winded. I am currently looking into it (PN JB-2225), but as far as I know they are a direct stock replacement and I cannot find any recommendation by Melling. I'll keep looking though.

          A reground cam. Here's the cam info....it's pretty mild.
          20190807_183601.jpg
           
        • pishta

          pishta I know I'm right....

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          pushrods rotating...how? Rollers dont rotate. OR did you mean when you rotated them they didnt wiggle (showing a warp)? Run mechanical rockers, its not too late....
           
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          • RustyRatRod

            RustyRatRod Bla de blizhibliz de blatde blizi bla bla FABO Gold Member

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            Verify you have the rocker shafts on correctly. There is a notch in the end of each shaft. That notch positions DOWN and to the REAR on the passenger's side and DOWN and to the FRONT on the driver's side. This can be a source of valve train noise if not properly installed.
             
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            • MopaR&D

              MopaR&D Nerd Member

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              IMO that oil is a bit too thin, I've also personally not had good results with Castrol oil but I don't think that's your issue.

              You mentioned there might be too much oil in it, if it's a quart over you'll definitely have noisy lifters from the crank whipping air into the oil.

              Lastly I don't know if it applies to the LA roller cam engines but I know on Magnums the spec for lifter preload is in the .080-.095" range, much more than a typical flat-tappet or aftermarket roller cam and lifters. They run fine with less but I've heard they do make valvetrain noise like a solid cam when set up that way. I put my 5.9 Magnum together with around .085" preload on the factory lifters and there is no valvetrain noise at all.
               
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              • Billbo

                Billbo Well-Known Member

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                Use a thicker oil. At least 10W40.
                My engine seems a little noisier (valve train that is) with 15W40 as opposed to 20w50. 20w50 seems to be the good all round oil for me hear in oz.
                Regards
                Billy D.
                 
                Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
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                • QuickDart360

                  QuickDart360 Well-Known Member

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                  I would say 10/30 wt to be the minimum. I use 30 straight weight in my 360 and it's quiet.
                   
                • Dodge72

                  Dodge72 Odd one out

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                  Thank you! I'll change the oil again and switch to a thicker weight (probably 10w-40) to see if that quiet things down. Cheaper than new pushrods. I'll have to check the rocker shaft orientation after work, I'm fairly certain that I places them correctly. Airways could have a d'oh! Moment .

                  I also have a aftermarket dipstick for the oil. Has anybody found these to be inaccurate or are they fairly reliable?
                   
                • ocdart

                  ocdart Inland Mopars Car Club FABO Gold Member

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                  Best way to verify is during your next oil change.
                  Completely drain old oil and put in the exact volume designed for your oil pan, then check the level shown on the dipstick to see if it is at the 'FULL' mark.
                   
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                  • krazykuda

                    krazykuda Well-Known Member FABO Gold Member How-To Section Editor

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                    What a coincidence, my sewing machine sounds like a 360.... :D
                     
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                    • 66jim

                      66jim Well-Known Member

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                      Remove valve cove check pushrods for looseness, reground
                      cams remove material from base circle of cam to increase lift and duration. But 203-205 is pretty small so not much was removed?
                       
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                      • thesiren74

                        thesiren74 Well-Known Member

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                        Get longer pushrods, i had to do that .030" longer.
                         
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                        • Bad Sport

                          Bad Sport HALF A BUBBLE OFF Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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                          I would, if'n they aren't oriented correctly you will be a bit dry on the top, lol.
                           
                        • nm9stheham

                          nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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                          As above... IIRC, the lifter preload on rollers is typically more than for flat tappet hydraulics. That .015" on the exhaust valves works out to .010" on the pushrod side, so that is not a big difference, IMHO.

                          Lifters sounds pumped up if they feel solid. BUT you have to rotate the engine around a few times to test each lifter when it is a zero lift to make this a valid test. A lifter leaking down but up on the cam will go solid due to the piston fully being depressed in the lifter body.

                          I like the flow of lighter oils and raced on Castrol for a long time, but the thinner weights to tend to make more hydraulic lifter noises. (I personally will live with a little noise to have more oil flow. But different things bother different folks....)
                           
                        • Dodge72

                          Dodge72 Odd one out

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                          Got to it this afternoon finally.

                          And despite my paranoia, I had put the driver's side rocker shaft on backwards! D'oh! Moment for me . It looks like there was still oil getting up there from the pushrods (they are oil through) and nothing was galled. I fixed that, and put only 5 quarts of 10w-40 in there (dipstick read full) . Man did that quiet everything down! Cold or warm, all I hear now is the carb sucking air and my clutch fan...and of course, my exhaust. :) Thank you to the replies.
                           
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                          • nm9stheham

                            nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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                            Glad it was so simple!
                             
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                            • RustyRatRod

                              RustyRatRod Bla de blizhibliz de blatde blizi bla bla FABO Gold Member

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                              I doubt the oil weight did anything for it. Likely was the rocker shaft on incorrectly. Glad you got it at any rate.
                               
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                              • Dodge72

                                Dodge72 Odd one out

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                                I agree, something like that probably caused most of the rukus. Fortunately , oil is cheap enough that I can switch back to a lighter weight and see if it'll keep the silence.
                                 
                              • RustyRatRod

                                RustyRatRod Bla de blizhibliz de blatde blizi bla bla FABO Gold Member

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                                If it doesn't stay quiet when you switch back, somethin's WRONG.
                                 
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