My 4sp swap thread

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bigtooth

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I'm currently collecting parts/knowledge to swap my '72 duster over to a 4 spd. I'm sure I'm going to have many questions and figured if I used one thread for all of them I might document my process and it may help someone else in the future.

So my plan.

833
Centerforce clutch
Hydraulic linkage with slave and fork

So far I have a lakewood bellhousing for a small block and pedals.

Two questions to start with:

1) Does anyone have experience with putting a '75-'76 Tunnel into a '67-'74 a body? I'd like to relieve StrokerScamp of the ones hes got in the classifieds if it will work..

2) I dont have the tranny yet and was hoping to get some feed back on which 833 would be the best for my application.
My car has a Mopar 360 390 hp crate motor it has a 9:1 compression and the cam specs are 288°/292° Advertised Duration 230°/234° Duration @ .050" 0.501"/0.513" Lift. Its a street car that I dont plan to ever race, and would like to be able to drive on the highway a bit, which with the 3.91 rear it has had me looking at the 833 OD unit, but I'm concerned about the big jump between first and second gear and the cam in my motor, will the RPM drop be to much?
Should I go with the non OD unit and if so, which gear set should I look for?

thanks, and please feel free to jump in with any advice that you might have that might apply to my situation.

Heres a picture of my car when I bought it in Florida to get an idea of what i'm working on.

184186_10150280230079855_786069854_7543496_4170887_n.jpg
 
I think that the only difference in the hump is that you have to add a small piece of metal to the 75-76 4 speed hump when installing it into 67-74 year A-body cars. On the trans it would be more of what you are wanting to do with the car. If i was wanting to do alot of highway/ interstate cruising with 3.91 gears I would go with the OD A833. If not and more around town is what you have on your mind and not to much long cruising over 50-55 mph then a regular 4 speed will be fine. Also on a diaphram style clutch like the centerforce I think you are supposed to remove the overcenter spring on the clutch pedal set.
You could also call brewers performance and talk with them as well.
Hope that helps, Matt
 
I had an OD unit first when I did my swap last year. It may be better with your gearing, but with my stroker (torquey) and 2.94 gears it was miserable. Swapped in a 3.09/1:1 unit and its fine.
 
Thanks Matt!

My wife and I drove the car from Florida to Vermont last May, let me tell you I would have killed for OD then! :) I think I would like the OD if it wasnt to much of a sacrafice in the drivability in the other 3 gears. If you want to go anywhere in VT you gotta drive 55+ for at least 20+ miles.

thanks for info on the hump also!
 
So GMachine it was 4 gear that gave you the trouble with your setup and the OD tranny?
 
bigtooth said:
Thanks Matt!

My wife and I drove the car from Florida to Vermont last May, let me tell you I would have killed for OD then! :) I think I would like the OD if it wasnt to much of a sacrafice in the drivability in the other 3 gears. If you want to go anywhere in VT you gotta drive 55+ for at least 20+ miles.

thanks for info on the hump also!
Click to expand...
OD's drive nice in three gears,just like a regular three speed,and od is definately an overdrive. Rear gears and tires make quite a difference,you will probably want to experiment.I would buy the hump,and if you need more metal,let me know,I have a bunch.
 
i went with a standard non overdrive 4 speed trans. 408 stroker, 373 gears and 25.5" tall tire out back. not on the street yet, but will be eventually....lol. i chose non O/D because it's not a daily driver. what part number is the centerforce clutch ur gonna use? and are you building a hydraulic clutch kit, or ordering a complete kit?
 
hey mopardude, i've seen that you've been doing this same thing! I even thought about sending you a pm with some initial questions, but figured you'd chime in here.

I'm planning on using something like this for a clutch:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CTF-DF269739/

What are you using? Is this overkill?

I'm going to try to fab the hydraulic linkage, I'd like to stay away from the hydraulic TO bearing if possible, they're to damn pricey for me, plus if it fails.....well you know :)

It seems like folks have done this on here, i've found a couple good threads with part numbers and pictures, i'm in the processes of pulling my motor out, I figured with it out I'd be able to get something working. Hows your project coming along?
mopardude318 said:
i went with a standard non overdrive 4 speed trans. 408 stroker, 373 gears and 25.5" tall tire out back. not on the street yet, but will be eventually....lol. i chose non O/D because it's not a daily driver. what part number is the centerforce clutch ur gonna use? and are you building a hydraulic clutch kit, or ordering a complete kit?
Click to expand...
 
Well, i'm headed out from work:D, and dont have internet access at home so i'll be offline till Monday. I'm hoping to get the motor and tranny completley out over the next couple of days. I'll try to take some pictures..

I just want to say, this forum makes me feel much more comfortable tackling this project! thanks all, and have a great weekend.
 
If you already are gonna have the welder out why not just put a TKO in the thing? I think you would be waaaay happier with the result.
 
not sure if you would be interested but i found this kit online a while back and am gonna be using it with my 4 speed swap when the car goes back together. http://www.chucksclassiccars.com/index.php?item=HYDC833

also ive seen a few guys use the pull type hydraulic slave cylinders mounted to the crossmember to actually pull the clutch fork to the rear of the car instead of pushing it, something like this http://www.jegs.com/i/Wilwood/950/260-1333/10002/-1

Be sure to post up how you end up doing it as mines a ways off and would love to see some more ideas :)
 
The gear spread on the 833OD just plain sucks for perfomance usage but it is nice when you want to do 70 on the highway and not turn over 3k rpm. If you plan on doing alot of highway driving (long trips, etc..) go with the OD trans. If your building more of a street/strip car then go with the regular 833 or a modern 5spd.
 
I have run both od's and straight 4-speed in a couple different mopars over the years.

3.91 gears and highway, I would use the od, you are really going to hate the trans ratio, but you have enough motor to compensate.

I actualy think driveability is better with 3.23 and a straight trans, because of the better trans gear ratio.

Centerforce clutch, just use mechanical linkage, the cluch requires very little effort to push down.

You are going to have fun getting that lakewook bell in the car, it requires some cutting and beating of the firewall. Plus they are hydro formed so they are really not that square.
 
I have 2.94s and a 26.7" tire. The OD gear spread between second and thrid and third and od were big problems on the road course, always in the wrong gear. The non od 4 speed, 2.94s and a McCloud dual friction is an excellent combo.
 
Got some time to work on the car this weekend and was able to get the motor/tranny out and some of the interior pulled apart.

72BBSwinger: I thought about doing a TKO, but I didnt want to cut the support bar, plus my funds are a bit limited at the moment, I figured I'd start with a four speed and one day swap a passion in.

GearGrabber, thanks for the links, I like the looks of that kit, but again, its a bit pricey. I figured I have plenty of time till spring, so I may aswell try to fab something, but I'm thinking I might go with one of those pull slaves, I think the push slave might be to close to my TTI's.

sireland67, stop scarying me about the lakewood like that :) is it really that hard to get it to fit? Also, I want to go hydraulic because of my headers, have read the z bar can be a bit of aproblem with them.

I'm thinking what sounds like the best setup might be to go with a regular 833 and think about dropping the ration down to a 3.55 or 3.23 in the back...


Big hole !!

motor_out018.jpg


Interior progress

motor_out019.jpg


Motor

motor_out017.jpg


Is my crank drilled correctly for a 833?

motor_out015.jpg


The ol' TCI

motor_out013.jpg

motor_out014.jpg
 
sireland67 said:
I have run both od's and straight 4-speed in a couple different mopars over the years.

3.91 gears and highway, I would use the od, you are really going to hate the trans ratio, but you have enough motor to compensate.

I actualy think driveability is better with 3.23 and a straight trans, because of the better trans gear ratio.

Centerforce clutch, just use mechanical linkage, the cluch requires very little effort to push down.

You are going to have fun getting that lakewook bell in the car, it requires some cutting and beating of the firewall. Plus they are hydro formed so they are really not that square.
Click to expand...

I dont know what bell housing your refering to but I used a Lakewood in my Duster and is was just fine, no beating.........
 
bigtooth said:
hey mopardude, i've seen that you've been doing this same thing! I even thought about sending you a pm with some initial questions, but figured you'd chime in here.

I'm planning on using something like this for a clutch:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CTF-DF269739/

What are you using? Is this overkill?

I'm going to try to fab the hydraulic linkage, I'd like to stay away from the hydraulic TO bearing if possible, they're to damn pricey for me, plus if it fails.....well you know :)

It seems like folks have done this on here, i've found a couple good threads with part numbers and pictures, i'm in the processes of pulling my motor out, I figured with it out I'd be able to get something working. Hows your project coming along?
Click to expand...

Hey there bud,

that clutch should work fine, i dont see a problem with it, but im actually undecided on what clutch I should use as well...Currently, the clutch i have on hand and planned to use initially, is this clutch here, its a RAM Clutches, borg & beck 3 finger:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RAM-98773/

But now that I have it, and that I decided to use a hydraulic clutch actuation system, I can no longer use this clutch because these style units will not work with hydraulics, they are too stiff and are only designed for mechanical linkage...

i know that i do need a HD diaphram clutch that needs to be capable of supporting the 530 hp and 520 ft lbs my stroker engine puts out....

the hydraulic system i plan to use, actually uses a hydraulic throw out bearing instead of a slave cylinder...i figured, in either system, youll have to pull the trans anyway, in the event of a throw out bearing failure...

this is the kit i have my eye on....

http://www.americanpowertrain.com/mopar/transmissions/clutch-hydraulic.html

or either:

http://www.keislerauto.com/mopar/mo...-mopar-1964-1976-a-body/shop.flypage_acc.html
 
chucks classic kit is 500 new. i bought one on here for 125 shipped for everything. it was a pain in the arse to figure out how low to drill the clutch pedal. had to do it twice, but let me tell you, after i figured it out, i felt like i was shifting a brand new cadilac !!!!!!!!!!!

if on a budget, i would post a thread on here for info, as there are a few threads that will tell you what you need to make a unith that mounts to the trans crossmember. more of a direct pull. i had a little trouble using the chucks one, as you have to bend the one rod that comes from the slave cylinder. but if you make your own kit, it will be almost straight lined up.
 
mopardude318 said:
i didnt catch it yet, whats the diff??
Click to expand...


At first, looking at the Centerforce website it seemed that the 739 was designed for 143 tooth flywheel applications. But with somemore research It seems that they fit the same applications but the 739 is meant for higher horse power than the 675 - I emailed Brewers and their DF 10.5 inch kit is the 739 version. I think that what i'm going to order today.
On another note that magnum flywheel I need is mighty spendy.. Oh well
 
bigtooth said:
Is my crank drilled correctly for a 833?

motor_out015.jpg
Click to expand...

Looks like you are going to need a pilot bushing or bearing in the crank to support the input shaft of your transmission.

I am interested in a hydraulic clutch set up, but man, are those kits pricey. I liked the idea of using over the counter Nissan parts for around $100. There's a old thread floating around covering the parts needed.
 
I spoke with Jamie Passion this afternoon and after talking with him, and the inputs, here I decided to go with the 3.09 regular 833 transmission and drop my gears down to a 3.23. I've been really thinking about this one and think it will give me what i'm after.
Meanwhile, i've been doing some clean up work on the engine bay - i'm still trying to get a good match on the body paint.

Since this picture i've weleded a few more of the holes in the inner fendors and tried my hand with some glazing puddy - I thiink its going to look so much better.

What do you think of the upper and lower of the core support? I got some new ones from a member here who drilled them off a parts car and after I drilled my old cut up piece out, fit in very nicely I think.

DSC00494.jpg




DSC00495-Copy.jpg
 
Looks nice, what are all the extra holes in the inner fenders for?
 
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