Need advice on Brake line parts and configuration

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AlV

AlV

Crabs in a barrel
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Greetings FABO,

I just installed my brake system (well almost) BUT something isn't right. I'm tied up on a few things and need some help getting oriented to make sure I have the right stuff (I thought I did) and the correct configuration.

I'm working on a 1969 Dart that I converted from 10" drums to K-H up front.

Components:
* All lines are Finelines Products, I ordered all new SS lines (cross overs for the K-H Calipers, 4 Piece front side, and the 2 piece front to rear).

* I picked up a combo 5 port valve from a member a few months back and ditched the original 5 port block that came with the drum setup.

The issue:
All of the assembly went well until I started on the front to back line set. Based on the information from several websites it appeared to me that the correct configuration for disk drum arrangments was the 2Pc front to back line set. However, I cannot couple the 2 pcs. together because I am missing a junction fitting.

Now, I think what I need is the 1 pc. line set because It seems like the 2pc. front to back line uses the hold of block as a connection point for the 2 lines just after the 5 port combo block.

Questions:
1. Do I need the hold off block if I have the combo valve installed?
2. Can I use the hold off block in conjunction with the combo valve or with that cause problems?
3. From what I read it seems as though the 1 pc. front to back was used with the drum setup but I'm wondering if there is any reason why I couldn't use it with my disk - drum set up?

Pictures for reference

My Valve:

5CC03686-FD25-460A-8B70-C7658F87262B_zps07kzehnx.png


93AF5B3F-F081-4017-9008-6824427338F7_zps7lozwhwg.png


B7EF2973-FBE5-4D4A-8CDE-14CF7925316F.png_zpsho9aboxz.jpeg


Hold off valve

PR104b.jpg



I guess what it comes down to is, am I going to return the 2pc line for the 1 pc. or am I going to look for the hold off block.

thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

AlV
 
I don't ever recall seeing or using this hold off valve on any of my factory disc cars and ive def never used one in a conversion
 
Hey Doug, Do you use the 2pc or 1pc front to back line?
 
Stick an adjustable prop valve in there for the rears while your at it too..
 
PoisonDart74 said:
Stick an adjustable prop valve in there for the rears while your at it too..
Click to expand...

Poison So you recommend I install an adjustable pro Valve inline with the combo valve? or in place of it?
I thought that might be overkill.. any issue running them in tandem?

If I have more control without causing complications I'll just do that.
 
Since your going to modify the brakes, and your there, hell yeah I think you should do it!

With a 73+ Mopar factory prop valve rear, its recommended you pop off that bottom nut and take the guts out first, then run the adjustable valve sometime after... I hear you can get weird cross talk between the factory and aftermarket valves if you don't.

c3tk8.jpg


I've seen a bunch of folks keep it simple and just tee the front brakes and run an adjustable valve to the back, removing the factory valve altogether but you don't get the fancy low brake light..


Since you have everything, you can either try and muscle off that nut off, or do what I'm going to do shortly; work around it: just pull the inlet, and outlet from the factory valve and put the adjustable valve in there with a length of pre-flared brake line found at your local parts store to make up the difference. Bent to perfection by yours truly. Plugging the factory valve. Not as clean, but an option.
 
If you are going to use an adjustable valve. Use the standard distribution-Safety warning switch that was on all pre 71 cars. That block was used on either drum/drum or disc/drum systems.

I would recomend that. The standard lines fit the original style block perfectly and you can just cut in the the adjustable piece where you desire.

You do not want to use that combo unit with a seperate adjustable p-valve. You would just be wasting your time adding the adjustable unit, and adding imbalance to the system!
 
This is the 69 config KH disc/drum. Notice the PV valve about 12" down from the distribution safety switch on the frame rail. If originality is important to you!

BB cars had the heat shield over the distribution safety switch.

Later cars had the combo valve that had both pieces in one unit. They do not work with the heat shield!
 
1969383S said:
If you are going to use an adjustable valve. Use the standard distribution-Safety warning switch that was on all pre 71 cars. That block was used on either drum/drum or disc/drum systems.

I would recomend that. The standard lines fit the original style block perfectly and you can just cut in the the adjustable piece where you desire.

You do not want to use that combo unit with a seperate adjustable p-valve. You would just be wasting your time adding the adjustable unit, and adding imbalance to the system!
Click to expand...

Okay Thanks! I won't run both.

So that leaves the following options:
1. Go back to the old block, get an adjustable valve and use the 2 pc line.
2. Keep the combo valve and get a 1pc line.
 
1969383S said:
Uncovered saftey block.
Click to expand...

Perfect this looks like the setup for the 2 pc. line.

I have to think about either changing lines, or going back to the configuration in your photos.


Thanks for the photos
AlV
 
I would suggest option 1 as originality does not seem to concern you.

Having the adjustable unit gives you more flexibilty and the factory hold off (or should I say the after market pieces) were barely effective!

Would love to see some more of your Dart as well.
 
I have a 68 Barracuda With the entire brake system transplanted from a 70 Duster 340 with KH, &10"drums, same as you. The Duster had only the one valve and a 1-piece rear line.
After I put 295s on the back, (235/70-14s up front) I was able to remove the proportioning part of the Comb.Valve, to send more pressure to the rear,sooner. I changed the rear Wheel cylinders to 1/16" smaller, IIRC, and put a 15/16 M/C on it, and with a booster from a 73Dart.
This works incredibly well for an oem system on a streeter.I have never wished for more. It is however a little hard on rear shoes.
 
1969383S said:
I would suggest option 1 as originality does not seem to concern you.

Having the adjustable unit gives you more flexibilty and the factory hold off (or should I say the after market pieces) were barely effective!

Would love to see some more of your Dart as well.
Click to expand...

I'm leaning to Option 1 also since I already have the 2 pc front to rear set up, and the original block just needs to be cleaned up.

I could keep it original and get the correct hold down block but I like the idea of the adjustable valve. Plus its Bolt-on.

The new adj. valve should arrive on Thursday so this should be wrapped up by the weekend.
In the meantime disconnect the combo valve and install the old block.
 
AJ/FormS said:
I have a 68 Barracuda With the entire brake system transplanted from a 70 Duster 340 with KH, &10"drums, same as you. The Duster had only the one valve and a 1-piece rear line.
After I put 295s on the back, (235/70-14s up front) I was able to remove the proportioning part of the Comb.Valve, to send more pressure to the rear,sooner. I changed the rear Wheel cylinders to 1/16" smaller, IIRC, and put a 15/16 M/C on it, and with a booster from a 73Dart.
This works incredibly well for an oem system on a streeter.I have never wished for more. It is however a little hard on rear shoes.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info! I don't think I'll see shoes that big on this ride lol, but its good to know that the OEM set up works well.

I did get the 15/16 MC for my set up ( I probably should have mentioned that earlier) and I'll keep the wheel cylinder changes in my back pocket.
 
Thanks for all of the feedback. I'll be back on track again after a little rework :)

AlV
 
I cleaned up the original 5 port "non combo" block and installed it back onto the Dart.
The M/C lines which were perfectly bent for the combination block required some massaging to works with the smaller non combination block.

The adjustable valve should arrive soon and I'll post updated pictures after I've installed it.
 

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If those are all stainless lines do not be surprised if you have some leaks.

I used the regular steel lines and still had lots of leaks. You just have to back off the nuts and re-tighten them, in some cases several times. Keep some water and shop towels handy first time you put some pressure to them.

I used tubing wrenchs and all the correct tools, thought they were cinched down good, but was not the case! If I do it again with another car someday I will loosen and tighten them several times before adding fluid and attempting to bleed them! No harm as all my leaks did not touch fresh paint!

Looking good!!!!!
 
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