New Build Startup Issue

-
Y

YO7_A66

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2022
Messages
121
Reaction score
105
Location
Indiana
Tried to start up my 340/420 today and it won't fire.

Cranks great (it spun freely for 3-4 seconds only), has fuel no start.
I moved the distributor CCW about 1/4" or so, then when I turned the key, the engine tried to turn over, then stopped with in 1-2 seconds. Battery is fully charged and on ACC, voltage gauge showed mid 12 volts.
Air cleaner is off and no backfire during either startup try.
I then put a wrench on the balancer bolt, and it did turn.

I am guessing that my ignition is too far advanced (CCW). But I need to limit the cranking time, so I wanted to check in with you guys to see what you think. I could not see my ignition box light since I am a one man show this afternoon.

Thanks!
 
Last edited:
Maybe bring your balancer up at 10 BTDC then see if your rotor is at # 1? I would think that would get you in the ballpark. JMO
 
You have to verify that the engine is timed properly. You need the #1 Piston at TDC on the compression stroke. Then verify that the slot in the Distributor Drive Gear is pointing at the front left Intake Manifold bolt (drivers side) after doing that. Distributor Rotor should pretty much point straight ahead. Also, check the firing order is correct with your plug wires.
 
Last edited:
YO7_A66 said:
Tried to start up my 340/420 today and it won't fire.

Cranks great (it spun freely for 3-4 seconds only), has fuel no start.
I moved the distributor CCW about 1/4" or so, then when I turned the key, the engine tried to turn over, then stopped with in 1-2 seconds. Battery is fully charged and on ACC, voltage gauge showed mid 12 volts.
Air cleaner is off and no backfire during either startup try.
I then put a wrench on the balancer bolt, and it did turn.

I am guessing that my ignition is too far advanced (CCW). But I need to limit the cranking time, so I wanted to check in with you guys to see what you think. I could not see my ignition box light since I am a one man show this afternoon.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Put the timing back where it was. It might take a second to fully pump up the lifters for the engine to start.

My recent engine build did the same, spun, no start. I stopped long enough to just be sure everything was turned on, then hit the key and it fired right off. It started so quick it surprised me actually.
 
U Bob: it is a solid flat tappet. I forgot to add that in my post.

Turned the balancer to TDC and the #1 piston is at the top. This is where the dist is pointing.

Thanks guys!

IMG_4612.jpeg
 
YO7_A66 said:
U Bob: it is a solid flat tappet. I forgot to add that in my post.

Turned the balancer to TDC and the #1 piston is at the top. This is where the dist is pointing.

Thanks guys!

View attachment 1716304517
Click to expand...
That looks about 45* off from where I'd have it, but it's more a matter of how you have the ignition wires oriented. Is that at or near your #1 terminal?
Also, VERIFY that it's on the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke- it could be either when you just go by the timing marks. To verify, you may have to pull the DS valve cover, or at least pull the #1 spark plug and feel for compression as it approaches TDC.
 
Last edited:
Seeing as how you can’t see the red light on the spark box, try hooking up your battery charger to the battery, put it on a high setting/ jump charge position and then see if it starts.
I have seen more issues with MSD boxes and marginal voltage causing no start issues than Carter has liver pills
 
Professor Fate said:
That looks about 45* off from where I'd have it, but it's more a matter of how you have the ignition wires oriented. Is that at or near your #1 terminal?
Also, VERIFY that it's on the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke- it could be either when you just go by the timing marks. To verify, you may have to pull the DS valve cover, or at least pull the #1 spark plug and feel for compression as it approaches TDC.
Click to expand...
shouldn`t it be pointed toward the front intake bolt ???
 
Like said above in a "normal" world that rotor is "off quite a bit. BUT if #1 cyl is on comp stroke and TDC, start with # 1 wire there and follow firing order 18436572.
The other alternative is to remove distributor and intermediate gear/shaft to get distributor oriented to pointing at #1 cyl.
 
famous bob said:
shouldn`t it be pointed toward the front intake bolt ???
Click to expand...
Coming up on TDC (piston towards the top and the balancer on the 20 degree mark) with thumb feeling pressure on #1, the picture of the rotor is about the same.
Second picture shows #1 dist location.

IMG_4613.jpeg


IMG_4614.jpeg
 
Last edited:
As 4spd mentioned, Install plug wires starting at the distributor cap post directly over the rotor and install clockwise from there 18436572.
 
**Side note**
1. Find another spot for the spring that is hooked onto the kickdown.
2. Make sure that 2 wire distributor connector is bottomed out.
 
66fyssh said:
As 4spd mentioned, Install plug wires starting at the distributor cap post directly over the rotor and install clockwise from there 18436572.
Click to expand...
I understand. But before I do so, my dist does not have any more CCW tuning left before it hits the hold down bracket.
Should I rotate the dist one tooth first?
Or, since the balancer is on 20 now, just rotate the dist CW to lineup more with the rotor?

IMG_4615.jpeg
 
I would make sure you have distributor adjustment both for advance and retard, so that means pulling distributor and re/re intermediate shaft(no biggie). But I would go 2 teeth and see what it looks like?
 
YO7_A66 said:
I understand. But before I do so, my dist does not have any more CCW tuning left before it hits the hold down bracket.
Should I rotate the dist one tooth first?
Or, since the balancer is on 20 now, just rotate the dist CW to lineup more with the rotor?

View attachment 1716304539
Click to expand...
\I thot about ur dist gear being off on tooth , looks like ur darn near on no.8
 
4spdragtop said:
**Side note**
1. Find another spot for the spring that is hooked onto the kickdown.
2. Make sure that 2 wire distributor connector is bottomed out.
Click to expand...
4spd:
The dist connector is bottomed out as I just checked it.
I will try to relocate that spring at a lower point.
Thanks
 
Yeah the newer connectors make it look like it's not seated, but good u checked.
That spring is for your kickdown but I wouldn't hook it onto where it pivots, if that makes sense? On our 67 cuda there is a triangular tab(not on yours) that the spring hooks onto. The spring keeps the kickdown rod JUST butted up against throttle rod.
YO7_A66 said:
4spd:
The dist connector is bottomed out as I just checked it.
I will try to relocate that spring at a lower point.
Thanks
Click to expand...
 
See pic below(lower one) it has a small tab for the spring. I've made a rod before and just welded a small tab on it.
YO7_A66 said:
4spd:
The dist connector is bottomed out as I just checked it.
I will try to relocate that spring at a lower point.
Thanks
Click to expand...

4spdragtop said:
Yeah the newer connectors make it look like it's not seated, but good u checked.
That spring is for your kickdown but I wouldn't hook it onto where it pivots, if that makes sense? On our 67 cuda there is a triangular tab(not on yours) that the spring hooks onto. The spring keeps the kickdown rod JUST butted up against throttle rod.
Click to expand...

1712950936017.png
 
By the way, it's the Distributor Drive gear that points at the front left Intake Manifold Bolt. Rotor should point straight ahead!
 
If you take the Distributor out, The slot in the top of the Distributor Drive gear needs to point to the front Intake Manifold bolt at TDC compression stroke. The gear rotates in and out, so make sure it's fully seated in there. The Dis, Rotor should then point at #1 plug wire on the cap. Which should pretty much be straight ahead
 
TF360 said:
If you take the Distributor out, The slot in the top of the Distributor Drive gear needs to point to the front Intake Manifold bolt at TDC compression stroke. The gear rotates in and out, so make sure it's fully seated in there. The Dis, Rotor should then point at #1 plug wire on the cap. Which should pretty much be straight ahead
Click to expand...
Ok, been in the garage.
Balancer still at 20, #1 still coming up on comp, rotated the dist gear one and two teeth, back to one. The dist hold down is in the middle’ish of the adjustment and the rotor is facing forward/drivers side, and the rotor is on the #1 mark that I made for the cap.

IMG_4618.jpeg


IMG_4619.jpeg
 
YO7_A66 said:
I understand. But before I do so, my dist does not have any more CCW tuning left before it hits the hold down bracket.
Should I rotate the dist one tooth first?
Or, since the balancer is on 20 now, just rotate the dist CW to lineup more with the rotor?

View attachment 1716304539
Click to expand...
First off, remove that hold down clamp and grind that tooth off of it. That's a LA TBI or Magnum EFI clamp, designed to PREVENT the distributor from moving- on those motors the distributor is used mainly to reference the fuel injector signal- ignition is handled by the computer. Your application needs full range of adjustment.

1726599955056.png


Secondly, don't worry too much about which bolt the slot in the intermediate gear is pointed at- that generally applies to stock distributors that have proper blade/rotor indexing, so the vacuum can will not interfere with normal adjustments. Yours is obviously not stock (no vacuum can), and aftermarket distributors rarely have the proper drive blade to rotor relationship anymore, anyways.
So; set your timing marks at about 10-15* BTDC on the compression stroke, and adjust your distributor so the reluctor wheel is just beginning to align with the pickup. Then, wherever your rotor is pointing is your #1 terminal on your distributor cap- install the rest of the wires from there.
If all is well with the rest of your setup it should fire right off the bat.
 
Professor Fate said:
First off, remove that hold down clamp and grind that tooth off of it. That's a LA TBI or Magnum EFI clamp, designed to PREVENT the distributor from moving- on those motors the distributor is used mainly to reference the fuel injector signal- ignition is handled by the computer. Your application needs full range of adjustment.

View attachment 1716304595

Secondly, don't worry too much about which bolt the slot in the intermediate gear is pointed at- that generally applies to stock distributors that have proper blade/rotor indexing, so the vacuum can will not interfere with normal adjustments. Yours is obviously not stock (no vacuum can), and aftermarket distributors rarely have the proper drive blade to rotor relationship anymore, anyways.
So; set your timing marks at about 10-15* BTDC on the compression stroke, and adjust your distributor so the reluctor wheel is just beginning to align with the pickup. Then, wherever your rotor is pointing is your #1 terminal on your distributor cap- install the rest of the wires from there.
If all is well with the rest of your setup it should fire right off the bat.
Click to expand...
I have everything back together and recharging the battery. I will take off the hold down tonight and get rid of that notch. Thanks for the info!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top