New G3 Hemi Block...

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justinp61 said:
I have a decent small block, but for what it cost I could've done a Gen lll and had money in my pocket left over. It's my understanding that 330 isn't to hard out of the Apache head and more if the porter knows what their doing. As already mentioned it's not all about flow, but the Gen lll heads are efficient. Just look at the timing these engines are running, it's not much. Also the blocks are strong, and easy to find, plenty of them living in pretty high HP applications. How many R or X blocks do you see floating around? Yes they pop up from time to time, but the last one I saw was $3K. If I didn't already have a R1 I probably would've bought it.

Yes the W-7,8 and 9 heads are capable of great power. But how hard are they to find? Then the cost for valve gear and porting. A lot of guys are running factory rockers on their performance Gen lll engines. I need to talk to Brett and see what a set of his heads go for now. He is also working on some Gen lll stuff from what I was told, it'll be interesting to see what he can do with them.

If you're talking about a max effort race engine the cost would probably similar. But I believe if you're looking for 600-750 reliable HP the Gen lll is the way to go.
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I want to see a reliable 750 HP G3 hemi with an OE block. I hear the same about the LS but I know the N/A guys are munching blocks pretty regular.
 
DionR said:
I agree with you. Not saying you can't get the same stuff on an LA. Just saying that it all comes from the factory on a G3, while it takes aftermarket parts to get them on an LA.

Dang, I forgot coil on plug, too. Again, easy enough to do on an LA, but it is still a custom deal while the G3 has it from the factory.

And I think you would be pretty close to the cost of a 5.7 crate motor to put W2's on an LA. Even the cost of a set of TF heads would get me pretty far down the road of a full EFI G3 swap.
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Would I be considered rude if i thought you were an idiot?
 
yellow rose said:
I want to see a reliable 750 HP G3 hemi with an OE block. I hear the same about the LS but I know the N/A guys are munching blocks pretty regular.
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I'd take a BGE at 750 long before I'd take any production sb at the 750.

as far as LS stuff n/a holding up I don't know, but I do have a friend that runs two that are boosted that well exceed 750 with no issues.
 
justinp61 said:
I have a decent small block, but for what it cost I could've done a Gen lll and had money in my pocket left over. It's my understanding that 330 isn't to hard out of the Apache head and more if the porter knows what their doing. As already mentioned it's not all about flow, but the Gen lll heads are efficient. Just look at the timing these engines are running, it's not much. Also the blocks are strong, and easy to find, plenty of them living in pretty high HP applications. How many R or X blocks do you see floating around? Yes they pop up from time to time, but the last one I saw was $3K. If I didn't already have a R1 I probably would've bought it.

Yes the W-7,8 and 9 heads are capable of great power. But how hard are they to find? Then the cost for valve gear and porting. A lot of guys are running factory rockers on their performance Gen lll engines. I need to talk to Brett and see what a set of his heads go for now. He is also working on some Gen lll stuff from what I was told, it'll be interesting to see what he can do with them.

If you're talking about a max effort race engine the cost would probably similar. But I believe if you're looking for 600-750 reliable HP the Gen lll is the way to go.
Click to expand...
Your assumptions are way off base and since I know Brett very well as he has built 4 engines for me I can tell you first hand that he built a G3 Hemi for a super stock deal and it fought him every step of the way and he considers it the biggest, most expensive POS from any manufacteur.
 
I have a 6.1 based 426 stroker that I ran from 2014 to 2018. Still have it, sold the car. Never had a valve cover off, changed oil and plugs. Heavily ported early(03-08) heads. Pump gas deal. All it did was run. And run well. I didn't do it justice as a driver/ car setter upper. Uses stock rocker gear with Stanke Motorsports hold down and collars. Anyway, for what I have in this, I'd only have half of a W whatever headed smallblock.
 
440 Mike said:
What kind of HP can a stock Gen III block take? How about aftermarket Gen III block?
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600-700 in an endurance application. Some guys claim they have 1,000 HP in their drag cars but I question that...
 
I had planned on building a crate-style G3 for my dirt car for next year. Maybe 400-450 HP. But that puts me 250-400 down from all the other cars. I figure my W-2 388 SBM should be good for 600...But I still don't have a car together and my health issues have me sidelined until late summer/early fall.

I have five G3's in stock. Going to try one of my early blocks with late heads for 2023 if I live that long. 13/14-1 on moonshine. Likely an after market forged crank and use a set of my ex-NASCAR Pankl rods. Maybe keep my cast crank and keep the revs down to keep it reliable. Or I can lock out th cam phaser and use the 18,000 mile 2014 G3 I have that came iut of a Challenger RT. Might squeeze 450-475 out of that with a light port job and the correct cam, carb and intake. There are several other low buck guys out there that would love to race me back of the pack. One lap pays $150.00 against a $25.00 pit pass. I have a 45 mile haul. Doable.

I have 6mm and 7mm Ti valves that need to be shortened and cut down from 2.19 to 2.05. Mike Jones cam...maybe a solid roller lifter deal but I may keep the cost down and make spacers and convert the factory juice lifters to solids. I have some used conical high dollar valve springs from an LS oval track engine. Ritter intake I think. I'll likely build my own 850 carb...

But, like I said, it all depends on my health and income. I can go back to work anytime after I heal from yesterday's shoulder replacement. My two day per wek PT driving job brings in roughly $550.00/week after taxes and my 25% 401K contribution. Right now my watching the local news, reruns of Judge Judy and the new season of Yellowstone doesn't pay very well. So money is tight and my social security sucks, too. I could run FT if I choose on my schedule...good company to work for and I can set my own schedule. FT running the upper midwest pays about $1100-1200 per week.

Most of my stuff is used and I bought cheap. I haven't had a credit card for 30 years and if I don't have the cash I don't buy it. My best G3 I paid $400.00 for complete... paid $75.00 for the Ti valves...same for the 400-some gram Pankl rods. I have a set of .060 forged G3 pistons NIB that I got for $100.00. New pistons will set me back $950.00...oh well.

Paid $205.00 for my chassis a low lap job from 2003. I spent $1800.00 updating it to a close as I could to a 2021 minus the raised tail that allows just a bit more travel. But the front has been changed to all the high ground clearnce specs (raised steering rack and both front croseemembers.) I dont have the cash to run the newer Ohlin, Penske etc shocks. $4,000 to 6,000 for five shocks ai t going to happen. So I bought 11 used fix-er uppers for $80.00. Sold 6 of them for $200.00 and rebuilt/revalved the other 5 for about $100.00 and will buy one new RF shock to try to keep up with the other low buck guys.

All these dirt tracks ban dual plug engines except the one I plan on running. So I keep my yap shut hoping I can bamboozle the inspector if I ever bring a G3 to the track. Might have to disconnect one of the plug wires to get legal.
 
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justinp61 said:
I'd take a BGE at 750 long before I'd take any production sb at the 750.

as far as LS stuff n/a holding up I don't know, but I do have a friend that runs two that are boosted that well exceed 750 with no issues.
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Yeah, the boosted stuff is living but if they try and run N/A and make any power the block won’t take it. Turbo’s are easier on parts.
 
My hellcat has been making 780hp to the wheels for about 20k miles now with no issues. Demon Performance/Noonan actually is finishing up a G3 billet block.
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'68cuda416 said:
Your assumptions are way off base and since I know Brett very well as he has built 4 engines for me I can tell you first hand that he built a G3 Hemi for a super stock deal and it fought him every step of the way and he considers it the biggest, most expensive POS from any manufacteur.
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guy he built that motor for is a good buddy of mine. It was a nearly 2 year ordeal. It made 770 ish horsepower, was far from cheap, and my buddy is still having some issues with it. Hopes to put it in the car this coming weekend, hopefully.
 
B3422w5 said:
guy he built that motor for is a good buddy of mine. It was a nearly 2 year ordeal. It made 770 ish horsepower, was far from cheap, and my buddy is still having some issues with it. Hopes to put it in the car this coming weekend, hopefully.
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i hope his problems are minimal and easily resolved and I wish him well on his hot rod
 
'68cuda416 said:
Your assumptions are way off base and since I know Brett very well as he has built 4 engines for me I can tell you first hand that he built a G3 Hemi for a super stock deal and it fought him every step of the way and he considers it the biggest, most expensive POS from any manufacteur.
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Okay, my assumption on the reliable power, 750 (n/a) hp is probably high, but it's well proven that boosted they like the LS hold quiet well.

Gen lll heads that flow in the 340 or so can be had ready to run for less than $2K.

The W7, 8 and 9 are proven to work well in the right hands, Brett is the right person. I would like to see what a set of his heads cost though, ready to run. The Gen lll I mentioned Brett building is Dons buddy, he told me last year at Moparty who was building it. The difficulties weren't mentioned. Brett's a sharp guy, if anyone can make one run hard he can.

I love my small blocks but think as more parts are available and folks building them get more stuff figured out they'll be a great engine that's capable of making big power. They already do in boosted applications.



B3422w5 said:
guy he built that motor for is a good buddy of mine. It was a nearly 2 year ordeal. It made 770 ish horsepower, was far from cheap, and my buddy is still having some issues with it. Hopes to put it in the car this coming weekend, hopefully.
Click to expand...

Don I hope Rick gets it sorted out.
 
yellow rose said:
I want to see a reliable 750 HP G3 hemi with an OE block. I hear the same about the LS but I know the N/A guys are munching blocks pretty regular.
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My friend is running a 6.1 stroked to a 426 gen 3 hemi. Has Ported BGE heads, 650 Hydraulic Roller cam, Ritter intake and a 850 E85 carb. This 2 inch headers. The car is a 71 plymouth Duster which I think weighes around 3200 with him in it. His best pass so far has been a 5.84 at 116 in the 1/8. Oh forgot he has custom Diamond 14.1 pistions. I am very impressed how well the car runs. All he does is put gas in it and check the oil once ina while. Lol also again for got he is useinf the factory rocker arms and shafts.
I have a 06 6.1 I am wanting to build 8nto 426 engine like his. But the price of the custom pistions is kind of holding me back right now. Lol pluse to do the hemi I will be pretty much be starting over. So I will race my junk yard 360 magnum while I start buying all the parts for the hemi. Also the Wallace calculator says he is making 768HP.
 
justinp61 said:
Okay, my assumption on the reliable power, 750 (n/a) hp is probably high, but it's well proven that boosted they like the LS hold quiet well.

Gen lll heads that flow in the 340 or so can be had ready to run for less than $2K.

The W7, 8 and 9 are proven to work well in the right hands, Brett is the right person. I would like to see what a set of his heads cost though, ready to run. The Gen lll I mentioned Brett building is Dons buddy, he told me last year at Moparty who was building it. The difficulties weren't mentioned. Brett's a sharp guy, if anyone can make one run hard he can.

I love my small blocks but think as more parts are available and folks building them get more stuff figured out they'll be a great engine that's capable of making big power. They already do in boosted applications.





Don I hope Rick gets it sorted out.
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I'm just curious how much double the actual parts when referring to the G3 valvetrain would cost if a builder was to lean on one of those engines and so nothing of a stock format would be used? I'm guessing your 50% more than W8 W9 stuff when all said and done.
 
'68cuda416 said:
I'm just curious how much double the actual parts when referring to the G3 valvetrain would cost if a builder was to lean on one of those engines and so nothing of a stock format would be used? I'm guessing your 50% more than W8 W9 stuff when all said and done.
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From what I've seen posted they are pricey, $2000-$2500 comes to mind. Hopefully as more guys build them and more aftermarket support becomes available the prices will come down. Heck, IIRC the T&D's on my Indy heads were $1100.

The engine in Mopar65's post is running 5.80's at 3200 pounds running a factory block, ported factory heads and factory rockers. He mentioned custom pistons and their costs, I can relate to that as my 434 has custom Diamonds in it.
 
I ran my 426 to 7300 regularly. As mentioned before, stock shafts and rockers. I just don't understand the gripes in how expensive these engines are to build. A custom piston, for instance, cost pretty much the same across the board. Compare the costs of the gen 3 Apache or Big Gas head to that of a W series or Eddy Victor. Then work needed for each to flow, say, an even 300 at a relatively low lift(450-500). Now compare prices on blocks. A Big Gas block compared to a Ritter or an R. No, they ain't the prettiest engine, but, beautiful engines don't fuckin win races.
 
mopar65 said:
My friend is running a 6.1 stroked to a 426 gen 3 hemi. Has Ported BGE heads, 650 Hydraulic Roller cam, Ritter intake and a 850 E85 carb. This 2 inch headers. The car is a 71 plymouth Duster which I think weighes around 3200 with him in it. His best pass so far has been a 5.84 at 116 in the 1/8. Oh forgot he has custom Diamond 14.1 pistions. I am very impressed how well the car runs. All he does is put gas in it and check the oil once ina while. Lol also again for got he is useinf the factory rocker arms and shafts.
I have a 06 6.1 I am wanting to build 8nto 426 engine like his. But the price of the custom pistions is kind of holding me back right now. Lol pluse to do the hemi I will be pretty much be starting over. So I will race my junk yard 360 magnum while I start buying all the parts for the hemi. Also the Wallace calculator says he is making 768HP.
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That’s all of 750 HP and then some. How long has he been beating on it?
 
408 swinger said:
I ran my 426 to 7300 regularly. As mentioned before, stock shafts and rockers. I just don't understand the gripes in how expensive these engines are to build. A custom piston, for instance, cost pretty much the same across the board. Compare the costs of the gen 3 Apache or Big Gas head to that of a W series or Eddy Victor. Then work needed for each to flow, say, an even 300 at a relatively low lift(450-500). Now compare prices on blocks. A Big Gas block compared to a Ritter or an R. No, they ain't the prettiest engine, but, beautiful engines don't fuckin win races.
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True. Custom pistons are the same no matter what. Pretty much the same for cams and other stuff like that. The money is in the blocks and heads. That’s why I’m surprised so many are willing to spend big $$$ for a G3 hemi when you still have guys bitching about the cost of a Ritter block.

And I think the G3 hemi is just ugly. It’s better than an LS or that hideous coyote thing, but she ain’t pretty. Beauty doesn’t win races but at least they could dress them up a bit.
 
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