no fire,a bit lost....

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hemiisking

hemiisking

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:violent1:Hello everyone.I have a 72 duster.It has a 86d250 360 stock (electronically).I bought the duster and the previous owner converted it to electronic ignition from a 73 duster parts car.I'm familiar with the motor I sold it to the guy previously.I crossed the starter relay and the motor turns over,I grounded a plug but had no spark.From the ignition switch I get nothing.I've tried the ballast resistor and straight wireing the coil to the battery and it was hot.Still nothing.Could it be the ignition switch or or a defect in the coil?I've not put a meter on anything yet....I hate wires.Any ideas???Thanks everyone
 
Was the engine running after the previous owner converted to electronic ignition? I am assuming it was running after and at some point it took a dump. In order to check your coil, you can put a spark plug and plug wire on the coil, ground the plug (or hold it close to a ground) and put 12v across the coil,(remove other wires from your coil before doing this) as soon as you remove the 12 volts from the coil, it should cause your plug to spark. If you get a good spark, your coil should fire the car, and you need to continue troubleshooting other things.
 
ballast resistor is hot...

have some one turn the key to start and then check voltage at the ballast resistor ..and coil...

remember the mopar electronic ignition has two circuits...start and run..

also..check that the neutral safety switch is hooked up.....on the starter relay the G terminal needs to be ground to the NSS on the trans....not connected...turn key...nothing..

you can jumper the G terminal to ground and see if it spins over..
 
69b-cuda the no fire issue is the reason he gave up on the car.He told me he dropped the 360 in and couldn't get it to do anything.I have a 74powerwagon with a 318 as a daily driver,so I took the coil and ballast resistor of my truck and still nothing:(70aarcuda I havent tried metering the two yet but swapped them out.The 727 has the nss but I don't see a harness in the car for one.I think I jumped it correctly.I ran a wire frome the starter relay ground to the center prong and still had nothing.I've played with the linkage hoping that could be it also.When I turn the ignition switch to run I get all my guages to light up but thats it.Should I try the ignition switch?
 
Did you check to make 100% certain it is grounded? As an electrical engineer i often find three sources for electrical problems, 1 - grounding, 2 D* grounding and 3 G*D* grounding

:D
 
69B-Cuda said:
put 12v across the coil,(remove other wires from your coil before doing this) as soon as you remove the 12 volts from the coil, it should cause your plug to spark. If you get a good spark, your coil should fire the car, and you need to continue troubleshooting other things.
Click to expand...


Sorry !! NO !! This is not legitimate.
 
Is there reason to suspect the wiring has been chopped up?

Do you have a wiring diagram?

If you wired (correctly) from the battery to the "key side" of the ballast resistor, and get no spark,

first check the ballast or try a new one.

Find out WHY you have no power from the key. Your no 1 suspect is the bulkhead wiring connector

Pull the distributor connector, the ballast connectors, and the ECU connectors and work them all in/ out several times to "scrub" the terminals clean

Put your meter on low AC volts, and connect the meter to the two distributor terminals, and crank the engine. The distributor should act as a tiny generator, and should produce more than 1/2 volt, and better, 1 volt AC. If not, check the reluctor to pickup gap in the dist. Use a brass feeler gauge, .008". Believe it or not, "O reallys" stocks these

If none of this works you may have a bad ECU

Is the ballast 2 or 4 terminal, the deal is----------------

The earlier "5 terminal" ECUs MUST use a 4 terminal ballast

The later "4 terminal" ECUs CAN use EITHER a 2 or 4 terminal ballast

So if you wire the car for a 4 terminal ballast you can use EITHER an early or late ECU

You can NOT tell a 4 or 5 pin ECU by looking, because some 4 pin ones still have 5 terminals. You must check with an ohmeter at the 5th pin to see if it's hooked up.

Some simplified diagrams:

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=18

4 terminal ECU, 2 terminal ballast:

Ignition_System_4pin.jpg


5 terminal ECU, 4 terminal ballast. Note the diagram of the ballast. "It matters" how it's hooked up
Note the upside down U at bottom of ballast in diagram

Ignition_System_5pin.jpg
 
I'm afraid you're going to have to put a meter on it if you want to find the problem without changing every component in hopes of accidentally finding the bad part. Start your testing with where you have juice and follow the circuit to where you don't. There will usually be a part or connector in the circuit that is faulty. A no-crank at the key can be many things.....ignition switch, neutral switch, bulkhead connector, starter relay, etc. No juice at the coil or module with the key in the "on" position, adds many other items to the list.
 
i had the same problem.turns out it was the ground from the starter relay. the neutral reverse on the transmission has nothing to do with it. it does not have to be hooked up to start and run.my ground LOOKED grounded but it was not. take the ground off and run a whole new wire to the body and see it that works.i was also able to jump it off the starter relay. i dont know if this is your exact problem,but a mere suggestion.
 
73AbodEE said:
i had the same problem.turns out it was the ground from the starter relay. the neutral reverse on the transmission has nothing to do with it. it does not have to be hooked up to start and run.my ground LOOKED grounded but it was not. take the ground off and run a whole new wire to the body and see it that works.i was also able to jump it off the starter relay. i dont know if this is your exact problem,but a mere suggestion.
Click to expand...

Are you sure you typed all this correctly?

The "ground" on the starter relay has nothing to do with the engine ignition, and on either stick cars with clutch safety, or auto cars, there IS NO "ground" on the starter relay.

The neutral / reverse switch HAS to be hooked up to crank the engine with the key.. If you crank the engine by jumpering the relay, the ignition puts out a poor spark because the coil resistor bypass circuit (IGN2) is not active.
 
So everyone I still havent put a meter on anything yet.As soon as I can get one its next in my troubleshooting.What Im trying to rule out is the neutral saftey switch.My delima with this is my trans is a 86 727 with the nss on it.My duster was originally a 225 but iv'e not seen a harness for a nss.Whats up with that.Is this something I need to keep diggin into?
 
The neutral safety switch needs to be hooked up and working for you to be able to crank the engine over with the key unless you bypass that circuit by jumping the starter relay. The neutral safety switch won't have anything to do with the ignition system however. Two separate circuits but they do have one common component.... the ignition switch. The two circuits also interact in the start position where the "run" circuit is bypassed and full 12V is run to the coil.
 
cudamark: so my car should have a nss harness.I just havent seen one.So its either wire one in or bypass?Also I haven't seen a ground for the motor either .....
 
It should have a harness and I'd get one if it's not there. It runs the backup lights too. I think it plugs into the firewall harness around the wiper motor area. One of the wires from that harness goes over to the starter relay to ground that circuit so the relay will work. You can bypass the neutral wiring by connecting a jumper wire from that terminal on the relay to a good ground. You MUST have a good ground cable from the battery to the engine and a ground wire from the engine to the body. Keep in mind that if you bypass the neutral safety switch, the car will start in any gear. That could be dangerous if you accidentally start it in gear.
 
Thanks alot cudamark.I'm definetly gona mess with the nss senario period.Its gota be atleast one of my issues.My trans is out of a 86 d250 so I know the nss end will hookup,but if it plugs into a harness do u think its unlikley it will match up to the harness if I get one from the junkyard or if I grabbed one of a duster parts car would it work vice versa on plugging in the nss end?
 
If you don't have either the harness for the car or the one from the transmission, get the correct one for the car and with any luck it will plug onto the switch. The switches were redesigned and some plugs fit good and others don't. If you have the plug and a little wiring still on the transmission, you can wire it into the existing car harness with a few simple wire connectors. You'll need an accurate wiring diagram, wire terminals, electrical tape, and a good crimper tool.
 
thanks so much Mark.I guess im gona put some wrench time in and when I go through some senarios i'll let you no what I figure out.
 
I just wana say thank you to everyone who replied to my post.It was a nss and distributor problem.Shes rumblin again.......
 
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