Noisey Lifter

-
J

JW MOPAR

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2021
Messages
64
Reaction score
35
Location
Chino Valley, AZ
I have a "67" 273 in my "65" Dart with approximately 8k miles on it. I bought the engine used with paperwork on the rebuild. Prior to installation I removed the intake and installed a flow through hi rise. While I had the intake off I decided I would change out the lifters (hydraulic) with new. I also had to change out the oil pan and at that time I also replaced the oil pump just for good measure. I placed the engine on a run engine stand and tuned before installing, it ran well. Installed the engine and put approximately 100 miles on it with no problems. I then developed a loud lifter noise on #4. I figured that the lifter had gone bad on me. I pulled that lifter out and replaced with another new one. Same result, noisey. The only thing I can figure is the oil galley is blocked somehow and that lifter isn't getting oil. What are your guys thoughts of an engine flush? Or any other suggestions. Thanks in advance for your input.
 
JW MOPAR said:
I have a "67" 273 in my "65" Dart with approximately 8k miles on it. I bought the engine used with paperwork on the rebuild. Prior to installation I removed the intake and installed a flow through hi rise. While I had the intake off I decided I would change out the lifters (hydraulic) with new. I also had to change out the oil pan and at that time I also replaced the oil pump just for good measure. I placed the engine on a run engine stand and tuned before installing, it ran well. Installed the engine and put approximately 100 miles on it with no problems. I then developed a loud lifter noise on #4. I figured that the lifter had gone bad on me. I pulled that lifter out and replaced with another new one. Same result, noisey. The only thing I can figure is the oil galley is blocked somehow and that lifter isn't getting oil. What are your guys thoughts of an engine flush? Or any other suggestions. Thanks in advance for your input.
Click to expand...
A 67 with hydraulics? Someone has been in there messing with stuff. That engine started with solids.
 
I don't know why you'd replace lifters for no apparent reason that have already been broken in to the cam, and then make no mention of following proper break in procedures for the new lifters...
Agree with the above, you wiped a lobe on the cam.
 
toolmanmike said:
A 67 with hydraulics? Someone has been in there messing with stuff. That engine started with solids.
Click to expand...
If he replaced solids with hydraulics, there you go. I know the pushrods are different lengths, but they WILL adjust with either mismatch.....and be wrong, of course.
 
toolmanmike said:
A 67 with hydraulics? Someone has been in there messing with stuff. That engine started with solids.
Click to expand...
Good catch, Mike. That brings the whole pushrod length difference issue into play... unless hydraulic rocker gear was used in the rebuild.
 
If you think oil galley is plugged, remove vc's and prime with drill while turning engine over by hand. You should see oil flow from both sides.
 
Check your pushrod lengths, for some odd reason you may have a short one? Things get mixed up...

Need .030 ths preload on the lifters, you don't want them running topped out.
Click to expand...

Screenshot_20241103-180746_Firefox.jpg


Screenshot_20241103-181629_Firefox.jpg




☆☆☆☆☆
 
Wonder if the recent rebuild 273 used the thick .045 ths Felpro head gaskets vs the stock thin (.025 ths ones)? That is going to jack the heads up .020 ths and make it come up short on the lifter .030 hydraulic preload.

☆☆☆☆☆
 
Wow! Alot of good stuff guys. When I purchased the engine it had already been converted to hydraulics. @Professor Fate you are right, should have left well enough alone. Now going to the push rod length. All push rods were the same length. One other thing I didn't mention is that when I pulled the valve covers off the rocker arm assembly was the original adjustable assembly for solids. I replaced the rocker arm assemblies with hydraulic rocker arms. I made a post at that time here and received responses that would work. I didn't want to mess with adjusting rocker arms to hydraulic lifters.
 
Here is my recommendation. You need to VERIFY EVERYTHING associated. That's verify you have hydraulic lifters. Don't assume. VERIFY. Don't say "I put hydraulic lifters in it". VERIFY IT. VERIFY you have the correct length pushrods. This means MEASURE THEM. Don't assume. If you still have the solid lifter rocker assemblies, I would use them. You can zero right in on hydraulic lifter preload. Also, there is a correct procedure for installing the rocker shafts, as well as the hydraulic rocker arms. There is a "LEFT" rocker arm and a "RIGHT" rocker arm and they must be installed correctly. Also the rocker shaft must be installed correctly, with the small oiling holes point to the EXHAUST side of the heads. Failure to do all this will result in a complete valve train failure.
 
We had the same problem with a 340 build. Several sets of lifters later for the customer and still ticks. Found the new lifter diameter was smaller. This combined with worn lifter bores created low pressure to the lifter.

Now we check every lifter and bush the block on many if worn. Most are worn. These engines are 50 years old. We have been buying old mopar performance cam kits for the lifter. Even if we don't use that cam we use the lifters. Mopar and Pontiac all take the same Hyd. lifter
 
Oldmanmopar said:
We had the same problem with a 340 build. Several sets of lifters later for the customer and still ticks. Found the new lifter diameter was smaller. This combined with worn lifter bores created low pressure to the lifter.

Now we check every lifter and bush the block on many if worn. Most are worn. These engines are 50 years old. We have been buying old mopar performance cam kits for the lifter. Even if we don't use that cam we use the lifters. Mopar and Pontiac all take the same Hyd. lifter
Click to expand...
It's certainly something that gets overlooked a lot.
 
@RustyRatRod they are absolutely hydraulic lifters VERIFIED. All push rods are the same length. Remember this engine had 8k miles with no issue and approximately 2 hrs of run time on a run engine stand along with approximately another 100 miles of driving after install all with no issues until now. I am well aware of the rocker arm assembly orientation and they are correct. I certainly won't put the adjustable rocker arm assembly back and adjust down on a lifter that may not be getting oil. Thank you for your input. @Oldmanmopar great things to look at during my next build. As mentioned this engine had 8k miles on it prior to this issue.
 
JW MOPAR said:
@RustyRatRod they are absolutely hydraulic lifters VERIFIED. All push rods are the same length. Remember this engine had 8k miles with no issue and approximately 2 hrs of run time on a run engine stand along with approximately another 100 miles of driving after install all with no issues until now. I am well aware of the rocker arm assembly orientation and they are correct. I certainly won't put the adjustable rocker arm assembly back and adjust down on a lifter that may not be getting oil. Thank you for your input. @Oldmanmopar great things to look at during my next build. As mentioned this engine had 8k miles on it prior to this issue.
Click to expand...
Ok. Have fun with it!
 
JW MOPAR said:
@RustyRatRod they are absolutely hydraulic lifters VERIFIED. All push rods are the same length. Remember this engine had 8k miles with no issue and approximately 2 hrs of run time on a run engine stand along with approximately another 100 miles of driving after install all with no issues until now. I am well aware of the rocker arm assembly orientation and they are correct. I certainly won't put the adjustable rocker arm assembly back and adjust down on a lifter that may not be getting oil. Thank you for your input. @Oldmanmopar great things to look at during my next build. As mentioned this engine had 8k miles on it prior to this issue.
Click to expand...
Put some 50 weight race oil in it with a bottle of prolong friction reduction oil treatment to accommodate the clearance and see if it clears up. Thin or Synthetic oil is not that forgiving with Hydraulic push rod engines. Wait until you see how the temp runs cooler with The Prolong in there.
 
It's easy enough to verify whether the cam lobe is flat or not. Maybe you just replaced a bad lifter with another bad lifter and for whatever reason, it's not pumping up (coincidentally on the same cyl).
 
@Oldmanmopar are you suggesting to run all 50w or just a quart or two? @mopowers what is an easy way to verify a flat lobe without pulling the cam? Thanks again guys for all of the suggestions. Very much appreciated!
 
JW MOPAR said:
@Oldmanmopar are you suggesting to run all 50w or just a quart or two? @mopowers what is an easy way to verify a flat lobe without pulling the cam? Thanks again guys for all of the suggestions. Very much appreciated!
Click to expand...
If the lobe was wore the lifter would have been wore also. The lifter will wear as fast as the cam lobe.

Increasing the weight of the oil to determine if its to much bore clearance issue. A straight weight oil will change the ticking if that is your problem. We had 20-50 Joe Gibbs race oil in the trailer we poured into the 340 and the tick cleared up. We tore the intake off. That is when we found the wore lifter bores and the smaller diameter lifters.

We tried talking him into lifter bushings when the engine was built. he didn't want to spring for the cost at the time. Now he wishes he did. watch this video.



We have a BHJ lifter bore fixture. this is what we use.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top