Oil still looks dirt after second oil change

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DartVadar

DartVadar

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My 360 has about 150 miles on it, it has a flat tappet camshaft as well. I changed the oil after the cam break in, and the oil looked kinda murky and dark, and there was a little but of stuff on the magnetic drain plug.

I changed the oil today after with the 150 miles as recommended by my engine builder and the oil looks similar to what it looked like after cam break in, not as dark but still not clear like new. And there was a thin film of stuff on the drain plug, much less than last time.

Is it normal for the oil to still look like this? I was told before it was the assembly lube and that arp paste you put on the bolts. Should it clear up next oil change? Oil pressure hasn't changed from when I first started it and it runs like a champ.
 
you are not going to get every drop of lube and break in oil out of it on the first change. I hope you are still using a zinc rich oil. it is normal. im on my 3rd change and I still have a slight light blue tint in mine. but I want that.
 
Before you change the oil next, try running a quart of trans fluid through for a day, then drain it. Trans oil is basically high detergent oil and will help clean it out.
 
So there is no need to worry then? It's just the residual crap left over from the first oil change? I would also assume that because the bottom of my oil pan is flat that any crap from the first time could still be on the bottom and slowly coming out, I hope anyways. I haven't found any chunks or anything! lol

I may try that, I'll be happy once it's all clean at an oil change, and yup I am using zinc rich oil so no problems there.
 
I wouldn't worry about the oil color at this point. Different oils will color from heat at different rates. As long as your magnet clears up and the bottom of the drain pan looks good, I think you're fine.

Enjoy that new engine. :thumbrig:
 
krazykuda said:
Before you change the oil next, try running a quart of trans fluid through for a day, then drain it. Trans oil is basically high detergent oil and will help clean it out.
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I have done that for almost 40 years now on my high mileage cars and it works very well to clean all the sludge out of the motor. I do it at every oil change.

What kind of oil are you using OP? If it is "NOT STREET LEGAL" Full race oil I would say that is almost normal. You only get about 500MI out of that kind of oil.
 
The drain pan looks pretty good, there is the odd little glint, no piece that I can really grab though, super tiny, it seems to be the residual from last time, only about 25% of what it looked like last time, so I'm not super worried about that. I'm just assuming it's all the new parts wearing together?

And I am using rotella 15-40 with a bottle of Lucas oil break in additive (what was recommended by my engine builder) no problems with anything else.
 
Doesn't sound bad to me. Not enough to add any cleaning agents to a brand new engine. If you are using Rotella, it is a high dispersant oil anyway (being a diesel oil) and will scour out every bit of carbon and such, and carry it in the oil 'til you drain it. So I suspect that is why you are seeing this.
 
nm9stheham said:
Doesn't sound bad to me. Not enough to add any cleaning agents to a brand new engine. If you are using Rotella, it is a high dispersant oil anyway (being a diesel oil) and will scour out every bit of carbon and such, and carry it in the oil 'til you drain it. So I suspect that is why you are seeing this.
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That's what I was thinking, and I suspect some arp lube as well, I took the valve covers off after the first oil change and there was a little bit left on the head bolts, so I assume that its still swirling around in there.

The few little pieces of metal appear to be aluminum (hard to really see them because they are so small. They are at the bottom of the drain pan, I had a temporary freak out because after I dumped the oil I saw them and they looked coppery in colour, so I thought bearing material, but the oil just made them look that colour. I would assume its from the eddy aluminum heads, I cleaned them but not really the oil passages. The oil filter looked pretty good, no alarming pieces were seen, and it didnt have a bypass so it would have caught any that went through anyways.
 
DartVadar said:
That's what I was thinking, and I suspect some arp lube as well, I took the valve covers off after the first oil change and there was a little bit left on the head bolts, so I assume that its still swirling around in there.

The few little pieces of metal appear to be aluminum (hard to really see them because they are so small. They are at the bottom of the drain pan, I had a temporary freak out because after I dumped the oil I saw them and they looked coppery in colour, so I thought bearing material, but the oil just made them look that colour. I would assume its from the eddy aluminum heads, I cleaned them but not really the oil passages. The oil filter looked pretty good, no alarming pieces were seen, and it didnt have a bypass so it would have caught any that went through anyways.
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did you have a previously bad experience ?
 
jimjimjimmy said:
did you have a previously bad experience ?
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Nope never had a problem, and nobody in my family has ever had a problem. This is my first engine build where I essentially did it all by myself so EVERYTHING is making me question if its normal or not. I guess I just worry too much.

So big chunks and audible knocking noises would indicated something is wrong I would guess? because it runs like a champ with great oil pressure and no odd noises, or really any noise at all besides the exhaust.
 
Normal, don't add ATF in a new engine that needs hi zinc. Just keep using the same oil you have been maybe next change at 500 miles.
 
I don't think I have ever had an engine that did not have something in the oil at a change or a little something on a plug magnet. And I never had an engine where I saw any little bits in the oil that preceeded the 2 failures I have had (but I am sure ther have been cases where it did).

IMO good care in setting up clearances and doing ALL setups (bearings, ring gaps, good new parts) and checking everything 2x seems to be the ticket for consistent success. Sounds like you have done this and been very thorough so I suspect you are fine; your situation sounds pretty good from the written descriptions. Confidence will come with more miles.....and if it blows, it it blows; you just gotta be accepting of that as a builder .... As a friend likes to say "The machinery always wins!"
 
EL5DEMON340; Normal, don't add ATF in a new engine that needs hi zinc. Just keep using the same oil you have been maybe next change at 500 miles.
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The ATF won't hurt anything. Not saying he needs to do it. Just saying it will not hurt an engine in any way shape or form.
 
Mad Dart said:
The ATF won't hurt anything. Not saying he needs to do it. Just saying it will not hurt an engine in any way shape or form.
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If he has a good size cam with higher spring presure and adds ATF the zinc level may fall to far and flatten a lobe. I've used it in old stock engines but I wouldn't in any hi performance engine
 
EL5DEMON340 said:
If he has a good size cam with higher spring presure and adds ATF the zinc level may fall to far and flatten a lobe. I've used it in old stock engines but I wouldn't in any hi performance engine
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If he chooses, he may want to use only half a quart if he's worry about diluting the zinc. Trans fluid is a good way to clean up an engine with dirty oil, been doing it for years on these engines.
 
Oklacarcollecto said:
I generally leave my oil plug out and my filter off for an hour or so to let every drop drain out that can.
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No wonder it takes you so long to change the oil.... :banghead:


We just thought that you were slow.... LOL! :D
 
you would be amazed how much oil changes just by pouring it in , I had oil that ran for 5 minutes come out dark and I then poured new oil through the motor with the drain plug out repeatedly and it came out dark like english beer without even running the motor , I used 3 quarts and poured it through each valve cover times . I too leave the plug out and let her drip dry .
 
Rotella 15-40 T is one of the highest zinc oils on the shelf, so between that and the additive there is no way 1 quart of ATF is going to dilute that enough to even be close to causing a problem.
I still wouldn't do it though because a brand new motor doesn't need what it does.
 
EL5DEMON340 said:
If he has a good size cam with higher spring presure and adds ATF the zinc level may fall to far and flatten a lobe. I've used it in old stock engines but I wouldn't in any hi performance engine
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Fail? No way.... Would never , could never happen.
 
TrailBeast said:
Rotella 15-40 T is one of the highest zinc oils on the shelf, so between that and the additive there is no way 1 quart of ATF is going to dilute that enough to even be close to causing a problem.
I still wouldn't do it though because a brand new motor doesn't need what it does.
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True, it would never hurt it. No way. Does he need to do it. No he doesn't.

New engine, old engine, flat tappet or whatever. It will not hurt anything.
 
So I took the filter to the engine shop (had to go there anyways to pick up some stuff) and they cut it open for me, he said that it all looked pretty good, the filter looked pretty clean. His only concern was some dust in the filter. But he told me to keep running it and change the oil at 500 miles and bring in the filter to see improvement.

He said it could possibly be from the new distributor gear and gear on the camshaft wearing together, And that my HV oil pump doesn't help with the wear on those gears. I have a hardened gear because of the HV pump.
 
Every time you change the oil there is less metal on the magnet. I would be happy with the progress :burnout:
 
I do one oil change immediately after break in and run it until the first regular oil change, usually around 5K miles. The less you worry about it, the less trouble you'll have.
 
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