Only 460hp

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I'm hoping some of you more experienced guys can give me some answers. Here's my combo:
414 stroker
850 Holley DP
Eddy AG port matched, center divider modified
Ported Mopar iron heads #P4876179 275@650 (advertised)
1.6 rockers
Comp 242/[email protected]
.558/.573 after lash
Valve timing
Open
@.50 Int:15 BTDC
Exh:51 BBDC
Valve timing
Close
@.050 INT :47 ABDC
EHX:19 ATDC




106 Intake Centerline
106 LSA
KB356.060 Step Dish pistons +23.5 volume (Yeah, I know.)
9.4 Comp.
1.465 comp. height
Eagle SIR rods
Mopar cast crank
Internally balanced
TTI 1 5/8-1 3/4 Step headers
MSD Ignition @34 degrees
Engine made 460@5300
511ft;lbs@3900
Volumetric Efficiency reached 100% at 3900 and stayed till 4900.
Peaked at 102.9@4600
My question is, why did it peak at only 5300 and not pull higher?
According to the info about the heads, the work was concentrated in the "bowl" area.
Flow was supposedly up 44% on the intake over standard 360 heads.
I never had then flowed.
I assumed I had enough cfm for more power but I know that's not the whole story.
I guess the intake ports weren't opened up
Do I need more port volume/ cross sectional area.
I assume the port volume if standard 170-176cc.
Heads were purchased years before the engine was assembled.
My plan is to replace the pistons with flat tops.
Replace the rods with Scat 4340 I beams, ARP2000 bolt material.
Replace the heads?
Any thoughts on the cam?
Those Trick Flows looking good but not if I don't really "need" them.
How do I get 500+ hp?
For the record, I did not build the engine.
This is a street car with 3.55 gears, manual transmission. Not after maximum high rpm power.
Any input will be appreciated.
Your stroker is thee perfect example of what happens when you use OEM LA cylinder heads. Your cylinder heads probably don't flow anywhere near 275 cfm. It's not really about flow anyways--more about CSA (Cross Sectional Area). Your engine is performing exactly as it should. I built the same thing years ago and I went 11.8 @ 114 mph with a car I drove almost daily. Nobody could touch my car on the street AKA (light 2 light). You will love it--Until you get use to it. J.Rob
 
Your stroker is thee perfect example of what happens when you use OEM LA cylinder heads. Your cylinder heads probably don't flow anywhere near 275 cfm. It's not really about flow anyways--more about CSA (Cross Sectional Area). Your engine is performing exactly as it should. I built the same thing years ago and I went 11.8 @ 114 mph with a car I drove almost daily. Nobody could touch my car on the street AKA (light 2 light). You will love it--Until you get use to it. J.Rob
At the time I ordered the heads I got caught up in flow numbers not realizing how important cross sectional area/port volume is in relation to cubic inches. I just didn't know. Now that I do I want to correct it. I've looked at the Trick Flow 190's but the port volume is only 190. I'd prefer 210-225. Indy's are out of the question at their $4400 "get in the door" price.
 
At the time I ordered the heads I got caught up in flow numbers not realizing how important cross sectional area/port volume is in relation to cubic inches. I just didn't know. Now that I do I want to correct it. I've looked at the Trick Flow 190's but the port volume is only 190. I'd prefer 210-225. Indy's are out of the question at their $4400 "get in the door" price.
The Trickflows should put you at 500hp or so if thats what you're chasing. J.Rob
 
I want to raise the compression with flat top pistons, replaced the open chamber iron heads with more efficient aluminum. Maybe more cam.
 
At the time I ordered the heads I got caught up in flow numbers not realizing how important cross sectional area/port volume is in relation to cubic inches. I just didn't know. Now that I do I want to correct it. I've looked at the Trick Flow 190's but the port volume is only 190. I'd prefer 210-225. Indy's are out of the question at their $4400 "get in the door" price.


EXACTLY. 100% FACT.
 
The Trickflows should put you at 500hp or so if thats what you're chasing. J.Rob
At the time I ordered the heads I got caught up in flow numbers not realizing how important cross sectional area/port volume is in relation to cubic inches. I just didn't know. Now that I do I want to correct it. I've looked at the Trick Flow 190's but the port volume is only 190. I'd prefer 210-225. Indy's are out of the question at their $4400 "get in the door" price.
Indy 360-1 heads would be overkill for your combo, more likely would hurt performance.
The Trick flow would work well with the current combo with room to grow.
 
I want to raise the compression with flat top pistons, replaced the open chamber iron heads with more efficient aluminum. Maybe more cam.
Yes, you'll need more cam if you replace the heads. I'd do the compression math with the new head chamber size before I ordered flat top pistons. You may be okay with what you have.
 
Yes, you'll need more cam if you replace the heads. I'd do the compression math with the new head chamber size before I ordered flat top pistons. You may be okay with what you have.
I've done that. The problem is using flat tops with the Trick Flow's 60cc chamber. Compression is pretty high. I already have a hypereutectic dish piston already. It has a step on it so they have to be replaced to use closed chamber heads. Looks like I may "have" to go with a dish to get the compression reasonable with pump gas.
 
Yes, you'll need more cam if you replace the heads. I'd do the compression math with the new head chamber size before I ordered flat top pistons. You may be okay with what you have.
Any ideas on how much more cam I may need? Specs?
 
Any ideas on how much more cam I may need? Specs?
For what you're doing with a 3.55 gear I'd keep it in the 250-255° @ .050 and .575ish lift.
I've done that. The problem is using flat tops with the Trick Flow's 60cc chamber. Compression is pretty high. I already have a hypereutectic dish piston already. It has a step on it so they have to be replaced to use closed chamber heads. Looks like I may "have" to go with a dish to get the compression reasonable with pump gas.
Can step be milled off? I'm not familiar with that piston.

Like I've said before, I'd drive it as is and see how it felt. If you want to step up the power later start collecting parts and have everything ready when you get ready to make the change. There will be a high cost to pick up the little power you're wanting.
 
For what you're doing with a 3.55 gear I'd keep it in the 250-255° @ .050 and .575ish lift.

Can step be milled off? I'm not familiar with that piston.

Like I've said before, I'd drive it as is and see how it felt. If you want to step up the power later start collecting parts and have everything ready when you get ready to make the change. There will be a high cost to pick up the little power you're wanting.
100% right
for a no track car
its a stroker you could add alot more cam and head it still will peak earlier then you might want
i also agree drive it 1st
 
The step probably could be milled off. But the cost of machining eight pistons & re-balancing the assembly might be more that just getting new pistons. The motor is currently in the car. Don't get me wrong, It's a total blast to drive with a 4 speed! I want more.
 
The step probably could be milled off. But the cost of machining eight pistons & re-balancing the assembly might be more that just getting new pistons. The motor is currently in the car. Don't get me wrong, It's a total blast to drive with a 4 speed! I want more.
Can you replace the pistons without having to rebalance?
 
I've been looking for a set that matches the weight with pins of the ones I have. Of course I won't know till I pull it apart. I hope I can buy a set and have them weight matched to what I have. I've seen some that were close.
 
Have the heads ported more, mill them down some for 10.2:1...should be 500HP.
So, what else do I need to run 10.2: 1 compression with iron heads? Timing, cam. It's got EFI on it now.
 
Last edited:
So, what else do I need to run 10.2: 1 compression with iron heads? Timing, cam. It's got EFI on it now.
If those are open chamber heads, 10.2:1 should be fine...run an NGK 5 plug to start, cam should be enough to make very close to 500HP. Just trying to keep it simple for you. If you spend 1200 on porting and milling, and the EFI is up to the challenge, you should pick up roughly 40HP...you'll have to mill the intake manifold to match (or have the heads intake face milled) and might have to change your pushrods...maybe.

This is also assuming you don't have horribly flowing valves, particularly the tulip on the intake side...if so the cost goes up to change that out plus guide work.
TF heads and HS rockers are about 3200.00 plus pushrods...should also make 500HP, 9.9:1 with your piston. You have enough cam for 500hp with a good cylinder head. I've made 500HP with cam as small as 232@ .050 on the intake side. That was a great working set of heads though...
 
If those are open chamber heads, 10.2:1 should be fine...run an NGK 5 plug to start, cam should be enough to make very close to 500HP. Just trying to keep it simple for you. If you spend 1200 on porting and milling, and the EFI is up to the challenge, you should pick up roughly 40HP...you'll have to mill the intake manifold to match (or have the heads intake face milled) and might have to change your pushrods...maybe.

This is also assuming you don't have horribly flowing valves, particularly the tulip on the intake side...if so the cost goes up to change that out plus guide work.
TF heads and HS rockers are about 3200.00 plus pushrods...should also make 500HP, 9.9:1 with your piston. You have enough cam for 500hp with a good cylinder head. I've made 500HP with cam as small as 232@ .050 on the intake side. That was a great working set of heads though...
Thanks for that info. I thought I could have some work done on the heads at half the cost of buying new ones. Particularly what kind of porting do the heads need? I assume the ports are too small.
 
I'm hoping some of you more experienced guys can give me some answers. Here's my combo:
414 stroker
850 Holley DP
Eddy AG port matched, center divider modified
Ported Mopar iron heads #P4876179 275@650 (advertised)
1.6 rockers
Comp 242/[email protected]
.558/.573 after lash
Valve timing
Open
@.50 Int:15 BTDC
Exh:51 BBDC
Valve timing
Close
@.050 INT :47 ABDC
EHX:19 ATDC




106 Intake Centerline
106 LSA
KB356.060 Step Dish pistons +23.5 volume (Yeah, I know.)
9.4 Comp.
1.465 comp. height
Eagle SIR rods
Mopar cast crank
Internally balanced
TTI 1 5/8-1 3/4 Step headers
MSD Ignition @34 degrees
Engine made 460@5300
511ft;lbs@3900
Volumetric Efficiency reached 100% at 3900 and stayed till 4900.
Peaked at 102.9@4600
My question is, why did it peak at only 5300 and not pull higher?
According to the info about the heads, the work was concentrated in the "bowl" area.
Flow was supposedly up 44% on the intake over standard 360 heads.
I never had then flowed.
I assumed I had enough cfm for more power but I know that's not the whole story.
I guess the intake ports weren't opened up
Do I need more port volume/ cross sectional area.
I assume the port volume if standard 170-176cc.
Heads were purchased years before the engine was assembled.
My plan is to replace the pistons with flat tops.
Replace the rods with Scat 4340 I beams, ARP2000 bolt material.
Replace the heads?
Any thoughts on the cam?
Those Trick Flows looking good but not if I don't really "need" them.
How do I get 500+ hp?
For the record, I did not build the engine.
This is a street car with 3.55 gears, manual transmission. Not after maximum high rpm power.
Any input will be appreciated.
Here's a trick flow 408 515hp @ 5900 rpm 526tq @ 4000 rpm

408-Inch Budget Mopar Stroker Makes Over 500 HP
 
This is a street car with 3.55 gears, manual transmission. Not after maximum high rpm power.
Any input will be appreciated.
I'd run what you got and if not satisfied in a few years worry about then, if the 5300 rpm ceiling comes up to fast for you could always put less rear gear in.
 
I have a rear main leak I have to fix, the engine needs re-painting, header finish looks bad. I figured I would change some things around while I have it out. Have to install the TKX trans too.
 
Thanks for that info. I thought I could have some work done on the heads at half the cost of buying new ones. Particularly what kind of porting do the heads need? I assume the ports are too small.
I'm guessing quite a bit, especially on the intake side. If you have a tulip intake valve, that's a big problem too. I'd have to see the heads to evaluate them...or you could sell them and the rockers and go TF setup...mill the TF heads maybe .020...you should see a big difference in that.
 
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