Overheating issue with March Performance pulleys

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WildCat

WildCat

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I have a .040 340, iron "J" heads, that has been the engine from HELL. It came out of a 71 DEMON and I think it is POSSESED.

Be Cool radiator, AC water pump, TTI headers, Air Gap intake, electric fan and the March Pulleys

It was built about 8 years ago, installed in 2004 and car on the street in 2005. In 2005 the engine was removed and gone thru again due to bent pushrods and valves. At this time we installed March Serpentine drive belt aluminum pulleys. Heating issues came up and I contacted March about it wanting to know if it was an underdrive system.

MARCH PERFORMANCE CUSTOMER SERVICE ENDS WHEN THEY HAVE YOUR MONEY. That said back to my story.

2007 the engine is back out with bent #5 valves and pushrods AGAIN, gone thru again, heads completely redone, solid lift cam this time and back in and heating issues still. I didn't make any changes in the cooling system so why should I expect anything else ................. DUH

Over the winter I questioned many friends running small blocks and what they have done to keep them cool. Measuring pulleys I find the water pump pulley to be 7" and crank 5 7/8". I contact March again to see if they have different pulleys for a small block and one guy (on phone) said I needed to install restrictor to slow the flow. The one that emailed me after about 2 weeks that I have an underdrive (why in the hell didn't they tell me this in 2006?) and they now have a 5 3/4" water pump pulley. So it is on it's way.

As well as heating up at idle it had a slight spark knock

THE LIGHT SHINED TODAY

5 gallons of CAM 2 with about 10 gallon 93 premium and spark knock is gone completely

I live close to A&A transmission. They do more than just transmissions and got to thinking, Rick has run his race car for years, talk to him.

I stopped by and he is a really nice CAR GUY that gets it. He is very respectful of the work people put into their cars. He is also easy to talk to and knows more than transmissions.

When talking about the heat issue and some other problems that need to be corrected he made a few statements that make so much sense, why didn't anyone else come up with it.

I have a AC water pump, the factory needed to speed the fan up to have more air flow thru the radiator, so THEY REDUCED THE FLOW OF WATER with the pump to compensate for the faster spinning vanes.

Now I have a reduced flow water pump (my mistake even though I have AC). Mate that to the underdrive pulley set up from March and I think I have too slow water flow to cool properly.

What Rick told me sounds like that might be my biggest problem. So next week when the pulley comes in I will see if it helps, then I'm going to take it over to his shop and let him TUNE it properly and hope that cures the overheating issues for good.

Does anyone else have heating issues at Idle with March billet pulleys?
 
well my good man i dont use march pully's but i had some issues with cooling sys ... come to fine out most of mine came from elec fan not in the cooling sys at all ......my rocket scientist son said dad i wire you up this nice cooling fan that i bought you relays come on here goes off at this temp did a very nice job ...now i have had this motor for years mind you . diff gear packages different cam's different cars even never an issue with heat .... him an i put this 68 dart together this car run 200 210 degrees fat en carb up adjust timing do this do that still temps up there ... went out one day an played here not long ago run it hard speedo dont work 6500 high gear 391 gears temp went to 230 then smoke (blue an lots of it )started coming out the hood in the car every where ...wtf ... piston, ring gland,something major ... it burnt the fire ring out of the head gasket an was sucking oil from the intake into that cyc ...i had been telling him (son ) that this motor never ran at this temp in the 35 years that i've own it ... to make a long story short took the elec fan, put it on the wall of fame put the old school flex fan an shroud back on fix the gasket temp 180 all day in traffic, wfo, don"t matter, i have always preferred this (keep it simple, keep it clean ) just remember some times you just need to go back to old school basics ....you'll fine your answers....
 
well my good man i dont use march pully's but i had some issues with cooling sys ... come to fine out most of mine came from elec fan not in the cooling sys at all ......my rocket scientist son said dad i wire you up this nice cooling fan that i bought you relays come on here goes off at this temp did a very nice job ...now i have had this motor for years mind you . diff gear packages different cam's different cars even never an issue with heat .... him an i put this 68 dart together this car run 200 210 degrees fat en carb up adjust timing do this do that still temps up there ... went out one day an played here not long ago run it hard speedo dont work 6500 high gear 391 gears temp went to 230 then smoke (blue an lots of it )started coming out the hood in the car every where ...wtf ... piston, ring gland,something major ... it burnt the fire ring out of the head gasket an was sucking oil from the intake into that cyc ...i had been telling him (son ) that this motor never ran at this temp in the 35 years that i've own it ... to make a long story short took the elec fan, put it on the wall of fame put the old school flex fan an shroud back on fix the gasket temp 180 all day in traffic, wfo, don"t matter, i have always preferred this (keep it simple, keep it clean ) just remember some times you just need to go back to old school basics ....you'll fine your answers....
 
Yeah I plan on going back to a stock fan and shroud if the pulley change and tune doesn't do it.

The saga continues with March

They called and talked to my wife with cost on the smaller water pump pulley. She gave them credit info and it was to be on the way. yesterday i get an invoice from them with the incorrect address and the wrong price.

After calling March and then UPS

What ever happened to common sense? UPS said they couldn't correct the address and let the driver know until he tried to deliever at least once.

This morning I get a call from March and guess what. THEY SENT A BIG BLOCK PULLEY. So now they are sending the correct one and I have to send the big block one back.

Customer service, "doesn't happen there"
 
Larry I'm running the March "Power and Amp Pulley's" which are supposed to slow accessories down a little. How much I'm not sure but the sizes you say yours are sound about right for mine. I have no cooling problem at all with them using a stock 22" radiator, stock shroud, and viscous fan. Also as far as the water pumps go, didn't your A/C pump have more fins than the non A/C pump? I first had a std. pump on mine and thought it was running hot (actually the gauge was off) so I went to the auto supply and looked at a A/C pump and it had more fins so I bought it and put it on. It ran slightly cooler (approx. 5 degrees) but my real problem was the gauge was off and I changed it and now never goes over 185 idling in traffic on a 90 degree day. Nevertheless the A/C pump did run a little cooler. That said it appears to me that the A/C pump does in fact speed up the coolant flow since it has more fins. I know the fellow at A&A surely knows more than me cause he does it as a profession but those are my observations.

BTW: How big is that electric fan? If it's not at least 2000 cfm it might be the problem. I know electric fans look a lot nicer but unless you get a real big one they usually don't do as good as a manual fan from my experience.

Getting it tuned will definitely help. Engines are funny sometimes. I've seen some temperamental engines overheat if the timing is too slow or too fast. Had to be just right. If it's running lean that can make it run hot too.
 
"Now I have a reduced flow water pump (my mistake even though I have AC). Mate that to the underdrive pulley set up from March and I think I have too slow water flow to cool properly."

You answered your own question in the first post.
 
It's not the pulley, it's the pump.

Get a hi-flow pump and take the thermostat out completely, depending on climate.

No more problems.
 
I went through this recently and feel your pain, though it was with factory pulleys not March. Typically when you buy the AC pump (for other OEMs anyway), you're getting a higher flowing deal, but not on a Mopar. Chrysler used a smaller pulley on the AC cars, and compensated with less vanes on the pump. This is apparently secret knowledge because its not published anywhere.

But my question is: Why not just get the better pump and keep the pulley? You can get the pump at Autozone.

I don't see how its March's problem if you've got the wrong pump. Everywhere I've ever seen those pulleys, they've been advertised as underdrives. On March's page they go into the exact measurements and give options for differing water pump pulleys.

http://www.marchperf.com/pg43.html

Again, do not take out the thermostat.

Seems like there's something wrong with the valvetrain also. Probably pushrod length, but it could be a lot of things. How much P/V clearance are you running intake/exhaust? Did you check it?

Unless you made some part changes on the latest rebuild, I'd expect to have messed up pushrods and valves again soon. Its not going to just decide to quit eating parts.

If you get tired of running race gas to kill the spark knock, you can probably install a camshaft with a later intake valve closing event to bleed some dynamic compression and go back to pump gas.

Steve
 
In the last build the heads were completely rebuilt, new valves & guides at Indy Cylinder Head. New Comp solid lift cam and new Push rods made to exact lenght needed

I should have put a new water pump on the last build, but I don't want to change anything that would require opening the engine. It was painted together and don't want to chip the paint unless I have too. So I chose to change the pulley.

The new pulley came today and it looks like a mini pulley compared to the one on it now, it should speed it up.

Yeah the AC water pump actually has 6 vanes and the standard has 8, smaller WP pulley to increase air flow and keep the water flow the same.

I should have put a stock fan on, but I was building this to run good and LOOK GOOD, well so far i have one of them.

As far as race gas, don't like the idea, but I don't drive it that much and once it is tuned correctly then timing can be backed up some if needed. I told them I wanted it to run on Pump Gas it was to be 9.9:1 after the last rebuild and better checking 10.3:1

IF I don't get it to run as I think it should it will get pulled and put on engine stand and something else will go in.

low340RT.JPG

guess I need to take more pictures, will do tomorrow before and after pulley change

low340RT.JPG
 
Does anyone else have heating issues at Idle with March billet pulleys?
Click to expand...

Nope, never did. The engines tune and timing are the biggest issues ever when it comes to pining and overheating. I was running a 10-1 360 with those serpintine pulleys. There smaller than the OE ones I took off.
 
Friday I got the correct replacement pulley and put it on yesterday

I would say it helped. Before cruising it would run about 190 and yesterday it was on 170, stop at light it went up a little but still under 180. Once home I let it sit idling and yes it heated up to over 200 but took 10 - 15 minutes to do so.

I'm happy at this point and hope knowonw else has to go thru this.

Next off to A&A transmission/ Speed Shop for a good tune up

Pulleys.jpg

larger pulley is what I removed

Pulleybe4.jpg

with underdrive pulley

pulleyaft.jpg

with new smaller pulley

340right.jpg

340left.jpg

Looking at the pictures I need to clean the engine

What I have learned, should have asked more questions before starting to build this engine. Should have left regular fan on it.

DID I SAY I HAD TO REMOVER THE RADIATOR TO CHANGE THE PULLEYS, I couldn't get the fan out without removing the radiator.

SHOULD HAVE INSTALLED THE 440 AND AUTO I HAD before getting the Demon parts car

340right.jpg


340left.jpg


Pulleybe4.jpg


pulleyaft.jpg


Pulleys.jpg
 
quick question, did you have any problems with the center register on the march water pump pulley fitting on the water pump snout register? I got a set of these pulleys and the register is 3/4" on the march pulley! way too big! it just wobbles around and ya cant locate it properly.
 
mopardude318 said:
quick question, did you have any problems with the center register on the march water pump pulley fitting on the water pump snout register? I got a set of these pulleys and the register is 3/4" on the march pulley! way too big! it just wobbles around and ya cant locate it properly.
Click to expand...

I didn't have any problem, fit good and tight. It's been forever since I measured one but I think it's 5/8". I'd call March and ask them. sounds like they either gave you the wrong pulley or machined it out too big.
 
i called and asked, it is supposed to be 5/8. i bought these used off of moparts, and the gentleman selling them as a GOOD set of "used for mock up only pullies" failed to mention this small detail to me!!!

apparently he modified them for some odd reason, then off'd them onto me. how nice of him. I emailed him, still havent heard back yet.
 
mopardude318 said:
i called and asked, it is supposed to be 5/8. i bought these used off of moparts, and the gentleman selling them as a GOOD set of "used for mock up only pullies" failed to mention this small detail to me!!!

apparently he modified them for some odd reason, then off'd them onto me. how nice of him. I emailed him, still havent heard back yet.
Click to expand...

I remember that ad. That sure sucks getting done like that. Hopefully he just forgot he modded it and will return your money.
 
Sorry, just a question on the pulleys. Doesn't the bottom pulley set the pace ??????
 
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