PAINLESS WIRE HARNESS (thoughts)

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73SwungOut

73SwungOut

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Hi everyone. Was hoping I could get some opinions or any previous experiences on this new harness I just purchased from summit. (Painless Performance 21 Circuit Mopar Color Coded Harness #10127) So I trashed my whole original harness from my stock 73 dart with a 318. It was melted all over the place with loose wires from front to back. I will be installing an edelbrock 4 barrel carb...edelbrock manifold...msd ignition..mini starter...Currently have Flow Master 40s installed..and i believe Flowtech long tube headers installed..got new KB Pistons..and just had my block honed out .30 over..here is a pic of the little accessories I'm putting plus the harness I bought. Guess my question would be is if this harness is the perfect fit before I open it when it arrives?... Luv you all TTFN..

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Well since you're not dealing with "Chevy" they don't live up to their name. Definitely not painless
 
I’ve bought the Ron Francis “mopar” kit and it was way too overwhelming for my electrical experience. I bought an M&H factory replacement one and wow it is very nice. I’d shell the extra money if it was me.
 
Ddid you keep the old harness? You might need some of the connectors from the old harness that are Mopar specific
 
Dartsun said:
I’ve bought the Ron Francis “mopar” kit and it was way too overwhelming for my electrical experience. I bought an M&H factory replacement one and wow it is very nice. I’d shell the extra money if it was me.
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Hmmm. I'm gna look into that. Is that M&H like an original replacement to fit the specific Model?
 
volaredon said:
Well since you're not dealing with "Chevy" they don't live up to their name. Definitely not painless
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I was some what worried about that considering the reviews I was reading.. Seems like the only one I can find though within my budget right now..
 
I did American Autowire.
Its great, like really great, correct connectors, correct everything, marked every 6 inches.....its really great. (now $1100)

BUT.....if I did not care about originality I would find a fella on here that put the fuses in the glovebox and ran through the firewall with something else. You may have to search it out, I dont remember his name but the way he did it seemed like it would save your back in the long run and you could run the wires out of sight.

$0.02
 
The best part of the M&H harness is that it is EXACTLY like the original harness so all the wiring diagrams in the Factory Service Manual still apply. I have used Painless kits on a few race cars where EVERYTHING is pretty much different from stock and to some extent much simpler (think of all the stuff that isn't on a race car) and it was still a very time consuming process to install.
 
clementine said:
I did American Autowire.
Its great, like really great, correct connectors, correct everything, marked every 6 inches.....its really great. (now $1100)

BUT.....if I did not care about originality I would find a fella on here that put the fuses in the glovebox and ran through the firewall with something else. You may have to search it out, I dont remember his name but the way he did it seemed like it would save your back in the long run and you could run the wires out of sight.

$0.02
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I was really digging the American Autowire until I was ready to purchase then saw those 4 digits on check out lol.
 
I can tell you two things from DIRECT experience with Painless Wiring products. First, they are not painless. Secondly, none of their products are Mopar specific. None have heavy enough wires going into the instrument cluster for the amp gauge circuit. Even if you plan on bypassing the amp gauge, the wire size is just not there in any of the Painless kits. I've always had to splice in heavier gauge wire to make it happen.
 
My opinion, for what it is worth.
If you are using anything other than the factory style M&H harness, you will be wiring the car yourself, mostly from scratch. Not a terrible job if you are an electrical guy, or know your way around auto electrical systems. If you don’t it will likely be very difficult.

The OEM wiring in cars was designed for assembly line installation, so there are connectors everywhere. If you are wiring the car yourself with a universal harness, you don’t need all the connectors. You can just go from point to point. Simpler, but you have to figure it all out.

If you want plug and play, you need a copy of the OEM harness. M&H makes harnesses with popular upgrades, like electronic ignition and electronic voltage regulators.
 
I'm sure Painless makes a good harness but I couldn't swallow the price as its essentially a generic harness. Their instructions are good though. I ended up going with the speedway motors 22-circuit harness, it's half the price and so far I'm happy with it.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I can tell you two things from DIRECT experience with Painless Wiring products. First, they are not painless. Secondly, none of their products are Mopar specific. None have heavy enough wires going into the instrument cluster for the amp gauge circuit. Even if you plan on bypassing the amp gauge, the wire size is just not there in any of the Painless kits. I've always had to splice in heavier gauge wire to make it happen.
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Just did some research on Kwik Wire. Seems like the 22 circuit harness is pretty nice. Any thoughts on that brand?
 
DNasty777 said:
I'm sure Painless makes a good harness but I couldn't swallow the price as its essentially a generic harness. Their instructions are good though. I ended up going with the speedway motors 22-circuit harness, it's half the price and so far I'm happy with it.
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DNasty777 said:
I'm sure Painless makes a good harness but I couldn't swallow the price as its essentially a generic harness. Their instructions are good though. I ended up going with the speedway motors 22-circuit harness, it's half the price and so far I'm happy with it.
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I came across the speedway harness which seemed pretty good. But then I saw clip on Kwik Wires 22 circuit and I must say looks really really good. Couldn't find not one bad review and the instructions manual looks superb.. Have you heard anything good or bad on Kwik Wire
 
73SwungOut said:
Just did some research on Kwik Wire. Seems like the 22 circuit harness is pretty nice. Any thoughts on that brand?
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I don't have any experience with that brand. I've installed Painless, American Autowire, Ron Francis and some generic ones like what Speedway Motors sells as well as GM Delco restoration harnesses.
 
Dartsun said:
M&H makes the harnesses and sells them thru year one. They are factory replacements with all the colors and proper connectors.
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AGREE
TF360 said:
Yea, that M&H from Year one is really, really nice!
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AGREE
RustyRatRod said:
I can tell you two things from DIRECT experience with Painless Wiring products. First, they are not painless. Secondly, none of their products are Mopar specific. None have heavy enough wires going into the instrument cluster for the amp gauge circuit. Even if you plan on bypassing the amp gauge, the wire size is just not there in any of the Painless kits. I've always had to splice in heavier gauge wire to make it happen.
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AGREE
Mike69cuda said:
My opinion, for what it is worth.
If you are using anything other than the factory style M&H harness, you will be wiring the car yourself, mostly from scratch. Not a terrible job if you are an electrical guy, or know your way around auto electrical systems. If you don’t it will likely be very difficult.

The OEM wiring in cars was designed for assembly line installation, so there are connectors everywhere. If you are wiring the car yourself with a universal harness, you don’t need all the connectors. You can just go from point to point. Simpler, but you have to figure it all out.

If you want plug and play, you need a copy of the OEM harness. M&H makes harnesses with popular upgrades, like electronic ignition and electronic voltage regulators.
Click to expand...
AGREE
I want you to think carefully about what THEY said and what I am about to say. I used M&H harnesses when I restored my 69 Barracuda. They were incredible. Perfect fit; colors/stripes matched factory harness exactly; all connecters were perfect. Easy peasy lemon squeezy. I cannot tell you how many people have posted here with Painless harness problems. If you are a wiring expert, you might be OK. That Painless wiring harnesses you showed is NOT specific. It says UNIVERSAL! I highly suggest that you return it and get a year/make/model specific M&H harness. Because unless you are really good with wiring/rewiring a car, I would anticipate you'll have problems. Why pay that much for a harness that you know will not be an easy/exact fit.
 
I installed an American Autowire kit in my Duster. Great kit, high quality wires and connectors, very clear instructions. Had to learn how to do the crimping, but after a little practice it was pretty simple. And I'm not some wiring expert, just the opposite. I'd installed one factory style harness before, it was a totally finished harness in a much older car (very simple electrical, only a handful of circuits).

The only way I'd buy a factory replacement harness is if I was keeping the car 100% factory. The moment you start adding more modern, higher amperage accessories the factory harness becomes a colossal pain in the ***. I had a factory harness, getting rid of it was a major upgrade. Add a higher amperage alternator without worrying about burning everything up, no amp gauge bypass, individual circuits for plenty of accessories, no scabbing in wires to run a stereo etc...

I have not personally installed a Painless kit, but I've seen a few and know some folks that have used them. They do not have the quality of the American Autowire harness, and they're pretty generic. Definitely not a "perfect fit". I'm sure they can work fine but I think the learning curve is a bit steeper if you haven't wired a few cars before.

The AA kit is expensive for sure, but the quality of the wire makes a huge difference. As for not being able to use the factory wiring diagrams, well, good. The AA diagrams are far more clear and more accurate than anything the factory published anyway. They send oversized hardcopy of all the diagrams and you can download PDF versions too.
 
I used the Mopar 21 circuit Painless kit. Painless it was not. However if you have a basic knowledge of automotive electronics, proper tools, factory wiring diagram, and patience, it’s not too terribly difficult. Personally, knowing what I know now, I probably could have used a lesser kit as didn’t use a lot of the accessories like the heat/ac, fuel pump etc. I agree with @RustyRatRod that the wire gauge seems lacking especially for the charging circuit. I personally used a separate fuse/relay box for the higher amperage circuits like headlights using the Painless wiring to trigger my relays. Just my $.02
 
MomsDuster said:
I used the Mopar 21 circuit Painless kit. Painless it was not. However if you have a basic knowledge of automotive electronics, proper tools, factory wiring diagram, and patience, it’s not too terribly difficult. Personally, knowing what I know now, I probably could have used a lesser kit as didn’t use a lot of the accessories like the heat/ac, fuel pump etc. I agree with @RustyRatRod that the wire gauge seems lacking especially for the charging circuit. I personally used a separate fuse/relay box for the higher amperage circuits like headlights using the Painless wiring to trigger my relays. Just my $.02
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Heck, I was unaware they even had something they called "Mopar specific". That's news to me! Was it Mopar colors or GM colors? All the Painless harnesses I've seen were GM colors and generic GM harnesses we had to basically convert over to Mopar by using the Mopar connectors. Did yours have Mopar connectors?
 
@RustyRatRod Was Mopar colors (or pretty dang close to) and had plenty of connectors (spades m/f). However the turn signal connectors were not the same as my switch, so that kinda sucked. Headlight and wiper molded plastic wire housings. They did a pretty decent job at labeling and the directions IMO. Had to get a proper crimping tool. Wish it would have come with the bulkhead, but running the wires through the firewall made it easier for laying out the harness.

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