Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
Sounds about right. At my place the kid comes first, then the dogs, then the wife. I’m a distant 6th place. And my wife doesn’t bring me lunch either.
Piker Porting (Intake Manifolds)
- Thread starter 12many
- Start date
-
Sounds about right. At my place the kid comes first, then the dogs, then the wife. I’m a distant 6th place. And my wife doesn’t bring me lunch either.
The thread was created in hopes that others would post about whatever intake they have/had and what they did to it, tools they used etc. Very scant sharing, likely widespread reluctance to. RB gave me some useful insight and opinions that has me looking into some other areas I wasn’t considering (was going 40 grit finish, now looking into the texture) but anything more from me is limited as I don’t have a flow bench so that leaves me out of any further continuing discussion. 
Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
The thread was created in hopes that others would post about whatever intake they have/had and what they did to it, tools they used etc. Very scant sharing, likely widespread reluctance to. RB gave me some useful insight and opinions that has me looking into some other areas I wasn’t considering (was going 40 grit finish, now looking into the texture) but anything more from me is limited as I don’t have a flow bench so that leaves me out of any further continuing discussion.
Here’s an interesting thing. Every time I tried a burr finish it lost flow on my bench. Drove me nuts. Finally I decided way too many smart guys were saying burr finish, burr finish, burr finish. So I had to swallow my pride and figure out how to do it. Now I don’t finish any other way.
Sometimes a flow bench can tell you bad information. Another example of that is on the exhaust port. The bench will tell you to make the port bigger and bigger and it rewards you with a nice, big flow number. The problem is that big port just killed a ton of power. The bench wants a big exhaust port. The engines wants a small, fast and quiet exhaust port.
Even the EFI guys are using a burr finish from the valve seat to 3 inches above the injector. Reversion is real and the burr finish above the injector helps reclaim (for lack of a better term) some of the fuel that gets blown back up the runner by reversion.
The thread was created in hopes that others would post about whatever intake they have/had and what they did to it, tools they used etc. Very scant sharing, likely widespread reluctance to. RB gave me some useful insight and opinions that has me looking into some other areas I wasn’t considering (was going 40 grit finish, now looking into the texture) but anything more from me is limited as I don’t have a flow bench so that leaves me out of any further continuing discussion.
I'd like to see pics if you do the rasp finish. I might go buy a couple. Flobench or nobench, I'm interested.
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
If that was a graph from one of my engines I would be seriously looking at the O2 sensor for that outlying cylinder and if it was working good I’d be concerned. This thread is interesting as all hell to me because I’m doing a large single plane blow through big block currently and am just about to start on the intake. Thanks to all that are sharing.
I’ve been staying pretty clear of this post as these posts seem to wonder off into the horizon. Lately it’s been bur finish this bur finish that. It reminds my of a Chevy buddy that would read the engine books if his heroes then follow everything as gospel. Every head and intake I do for my son or myself for the last 20 years has been “bur finished” but unlike the guys that are bending good but’s to go a step further rattle my freaking brain. I’m out. Lol. I just had to clear that off my plate. Ohhh one this I would like to see would be some Time slips and combos from this “special treatment”.
gzig5
Well-Known Member
Got any riffler files? Might help get further down the passages and into the areas a flat file won't. About $15-$20 a set.
Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
The flow bench never tells you to make the exhaust bigger I don't know where you get this from. Blanket statements can be most sabotaging.
If you open 360 exhaust port up bigger and bigger...you can expect the low sub.450 flow to drop and see peaks move well into .700 lift. Using a 360 head...In many cases theres not enough throat/material to support the air at the turn, once the roof moves up enough... that's where the air goes and youll lose the ssr flow after .300..dead floor. A casting booger can be the root of higher lift stability in 'some' ports. Seen it myself.
Rough promotes a boundary layer and fuels reanimation with moving air. Does it effect speed, yes.
If it's all from reading books they don't need somebody to read a book and interpret it for them they can go read that same book and **** it up all on their own.
And this new attitude that if you don't have a flow bench you can't share well lets tuck our tail between our legs then
Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
The flow bench never tells you to make the exhaust bigger I don't know where you get this from. Blanket statements can be most sabotaging.
If you open 360 exhaust port up bigger and bigger...you can expect the low sub.450 flow to drop and see peaks move well into .700 lift. Using a 360 head...In many cases theres not enough throat/material to support the air at the turn, once the roof moves up enough... that's where the air goes and youll lose the ssr flow after .300..dead floor. A casting booger can be the root of higher lift stability in 'some' ports. Seen it myself.
Rough promotes a boundary layer and fuels reanimation with moving air. Does it effect speed, yes.
If it's all from reading books they don't need somebody to read a book and interpret it for them they can go read that same book and **** it up all on their own.
And this new attitude that if you don't have a flow bench you can't share well lets tuck our tail between our legs then
Making the exhaust port bigger is almost always bad. BTDT. Shape is everything and flow is near nothing, especially on the exhaust.
I couldn’t care less about a Chrysler exhaust port. It’s garbage no matter what you do. I clean them up and send it. What the flow bench tells me on that side means nothing. If it’s quiet it’s right.
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
Hmmmmm
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
Let's say you have a head that somebody ported and they only flowed one port and mirror ported the rest...
All the ports flow different numbers
Now that guy takes an intake manifold and grinds the **** out of it not flowing it to verify what it does just like a cylinder head. Safe to assume they all flow differently every Runner flows differently than the next and if any flow the same it's by Pure Luck or the hand of god...
Now you got your carburetor up there which is Four Corners all following the same and you're jetting evened out like it should be on anything that was right and you go drive around and you can't tune something out of it you can't tune the stink out you can't get all the plugs to look the same they all look different.
Are we there yet?
All the ports flow different numbers
Now that guy takes an intake manifold and grinds the **** out of it not flowing it to verify what it does just like a cylinder head. Safe to assume they all flow differently every Runner flows differently than the next and if any flow the same it's by Pure Luck or the hand of god...
Now you got your carburetor up there which is Four Corners all following the same and you're jetting evened out like it should be on anything that was right and you go drive around and you can't tune something out of it you can't tune the stink out you can't get all the plugs to look the same they all look different.
Are we there yet?
mopowers
Well-Known Member
Does anyone have dyno data showing the benefit (or otherwise) of just changing the surface finish on intake manifold runners, or cylinder head intake ports for that matter?
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
It is important mostly in an intake manifold.
It isnt everything though.
Consider it to be that last 15 horsepower and a motor that's already had everything done and thought of that you could possibly do to squeeze the last bit of power out of it. Nothing wrong with putting the effort in but it's similar is to buying $1,000 oil pan for your street car.... along with .850 wheel roller lifters...
It's only the difference between winning and losing if you're at the top 2%
Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
Yes. Google Larry Meaux interview. He lays it all out. You can go to Chad Speier’s web page. He won’t do an intake manifold without a burr finish. If you want one of his intakes, you get a burr finish. It’s not an option.
I can tell you that every time I’ve done it, I’ve dropped jets sizes, cleaned up some cylinder to cylinder variations and they just drive better.
I haven’t had the chance to B2B a burr finish, but that will happen soon enough.
For what it’s worth, Warren Johnson gave an interview at Engine Performance Expo II. He said there has never been a flow bench that was made correctly, and he hasn’t used a flow bench in 15 or more years. You can search for it on YouTube.
A flow bench can and will lie to you if you let it. Testing a port at any one test pressure means little, as the port sees as much as 200 inches of water when the intake valve cracks off the seat. No test bench goes anywhere near that high. Most I’ve seen is 100 inches and it wasn’t a commercial bench. Once the piston is past about 90 degrees ATDC, the pressure in the port is low. Like 8-10 inches of water. So the pressure in the port isn’t static. It changes. As does the direction of the air. A flow bench can’t duplicate anything near that.
I still use a flow bench. I have to rent time on one, but if I’m doing something I’ve never done or tried before, I go to the flow bench.
Like anything else, it’s a tool. If you don’t understand what it does and what it’s limitations are, it will tell you exactly what you want, even if the engine wants something else.
Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
There is way more to a burr finish than horsepower. You have to get around that first. I’ll say something I almost never say. There are times when horsepower isn’t everything. This is one of those times.
When you forget what the A/F meter says and look at BSAC and BSFC numbers, then you start to see what a burr finish does.
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
So trick flow, bloomer, indy, all garbage then huh.
Proof If you try hard enough ..you can believe anything.
Switch hp for average tq, since hp is work done by torque. What's to debate...more splitting hairs for the sake of trying to sound smarter than the next guy?
The guys intake manifold and heads are all over the place. Didnt you do someones heads here? Did you mirror port them and only flow one port?
Proof If you try hard enough ..you can believe anything.
Switch hp for average tq, since hp is work done by torque. What's to debate...more splitting hairs for the sake of trying to sound smarter than the next guy?
The guys intake manifold and heads are all over the place. Didnt you do someones heads here? Did you mirror port them and only flow one port?
Here would be a cool idea:
Take an intake, the new SB Trick Flow. Equal playing field for most as it’s new, most haven’t even laid eyes on one.
Competitors of all walks each get a new ootb intake to modify.
Rules are:
No spacers
No epoxy
No welding
Must be ported to any level
No use of flow bench, probes etc
You can only port it to what you think it would need to make the most or best overall curve, horsepower as well as torque etc
The engine would be a street/strip application with all specs given and you port the intake based on that using only your experience,
Nothing else.
Dyno each and find the winner.
Take all this reliance on benches, probes, and data out of the equation and put it all on the individual, period.
Now that would be fun and interesting.
So, who buys the intakes??
Last edited:
Here would be a cool idea:
Take an intake, the new SB Trick Flow. Equal playing field for most as it’s new, most haven’t even laid eyes on one.
Competitors of all walks each get a new ootb intake to modify.
Rules are:
No spacers
No epoxy
No welding
Must be ported to any level
No use of flow bench, probes etc
You can only port it to what you think it would need to make the most or best overall curve, horsepower as well as torque etc
The engine would be a street/strip application with all specs given and you port the intake based on that using only your experience,
Nothing else.
Dyno each and find the winner.
Now that would be fun and interesting.
So, who buys the intakes??
I would choose the most restrictive manifold to show the biggest gain.
Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
I never said garbage. CNC step over creates the same result. I never said garbage.
I only mentioned the TF to remove any benefit of prior experience with it,
-
