Piston Deck Height/ Quench?

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Lee J

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I am building a carbed 360 magnum. After decking the block .010 using kb 232 pistons I am above deck .006-.013. I was aiming for .040 for quench. I am close using a .054 felpro gasket for the piston that is at .013 above deck but that puts my lowest piston at .048 clearance. Is this too much for adequate quench or should I just let it be? CR is at 9.75, eddy magnum heads, comp XE-268. Any advice appreciated.
 
I built a 408 with kb dished pistons and eddy 340 heads.(with the relief around the bore.It had .041 to .045 on quench.Comp 9.7 to one,air gap.small comp solid cam(294s).crisp throttle response 750 dp.Around 9 inches of vac.
 
Run the .045s. With a 4" bore you can run tighter, and tighter's better. Once you get beyond .045 the effect is greatly reduced and I always aim for .030-.035 unless the pistons extra short or the bore is larger than 4.25.
 
I built a 408 with kb dished pistons and eddy 340 heads.(with the relief around the bore.It had .041 to .045 on quench.Comp 9.7 to one,air gap.small comp solid cam(294s).crisp throttle response 750 dp.Around 9 inches of vac.

Thanks Abodybomber, I hope that I have crisp throttle response. I will get either a 650 eddy or a 670 Holley avenger. That much vacumm will also be enough. I can't wait, although I have quite a bit to do.Thanks
 

Run the .045s. With a 4" bore you can run tighter, and tighter's better. Once you get beyond .045 the effect is greatly reduced and I always aim for .030-.035 unless the pistons extra short or the bore is larger than 4.25.

Are you referring to a .045 gasket? That definitely would be better.I plan on checking cylinder head clearance with clay. I'm sure I have plenty of piston to valve clearance with the valve reliefs in those kb pistons because I only have .530 lift. I want the quench but I'm cautious that I don't hit either. This engine will probably only be taken to 5800 rpm when I'm on it so it not like I will be racing this engine.Thanks Moper!
 
You shouldnt hit until mid 20s, really. But, unless you check carefully (which it sounds like you have) you dont know how tight things might get. I align hone and square deck all my builds so I know the decks are perfect and where they need to be. Quench is the primary reason for that. Pistons rock at TDC so the closest point is always the inside edge of the piston crown.
 
You shouldnt hit until mid 20s, really. But, unless you check carefully (which it sounds like you have) you dont know how tight things might get. I align hone and square deck all my builds so I know the decks are perfect and where they need to be. Quench is the primary reason for that. Pistons rock at TDC so the closest point is always the inside edge of the piston crown.

With that gasket my closest piston would be .032. When I was measuring at first I was using a dial indicator on a magnetic base but my measurements were varying a little maybe due to piston rock. So then I went with a straight edge, parallel to the wrist pin,and feeler gauges since my pistons are above deck. I'm not sure where you are referring to the inside edge of the the
piston crown? Would that be perpindicular to the pin? The block was not align honed, my machinist said it was good. It does spin real nice with the new bearings without any tight spots, and all the tolerances are good.Does squaring the block refer to decking both surfaces at the same time ? The block was decked .010 to get it flat, but I'm pretty sure he doesnt have newer equipment
that can do that. Thanks for your time and advice!
 
The closest spot is the top of the piston, inside... like closest to the valley. This is also where the squish area is. It's perpendicular to the pin axis, closest to the valley (the lifter area) on the block. piston to wall clearance, bore size, and overall piston height are what affects the amount it rocks at TDC. The shorter the piston, the bigger the bore, or the wider the piston to wall, the more rock at TDC, and the closer the piston will come.

The reason I do align honing is the fixture that allows for a square deck indexes off the cam and crank centerlines. Align honing allows the crank centerline to be perfectly aligned in the block, which in turn means the square decking is that much more precise. The difference between decking, and proper square decking, is about $100K worth of machining center. Decking is simply taking material off the head gasket or deck surface. It's an "as good as you can do" type of thing because the block is leveled by eye (with a machinist's level) to the table, rather than the deck surface indexed off the crank centerline. A shop can buy the setup to square deck with an older horizontal miller. But at best, assuming no slop in the arm or cutter head and no error in the eyball or the level, the cutting head will still be a problem because of the path the cutters have to trace going on the disc they mount to. You cannot get the deck surface perfectly flat because the center of the arc the cutter traces will always be a deeper cut than the sides. A modern block machining center has a single cutter that can reduce that accross-the-deck depth difference to under .0005". Usually, you can take a "decked" block, put it in a square decking fixture, and take measurements off various points and you'll find variences of as much as .015-.020" from end to end and somtimes more on the diagonal. It's no wonder there are issues in some engines with pushrod length and preload, noisey lifters, deontaion and ping, when others are fine... All that is affected by the geometry of the deck surface. Nevermind longevity, power, and smoothness.
 
Thanks for the thorough definition Moper! I'm a little bummed probably having gone too far to go back now. I have really taken the the time to try and do everything right in this build since this is my first engine. I hate having to "hope for the best" but I might have to. I will check with my shop today. Thanks again! I love this site!
 
You're getting it as good as you can, and more important, you're measuring so you "Know". Don't feel bummed at all.
 
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