Post Picture From a Factory Service Manual

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RustyRatRod

RustyRatRod

I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday.
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Alright, I need some help. I am missing "something" about the clutch adjusting rod on Vixen. The adjuster nut lacks only about 1/2" from being all the way at the end of its travel and that's not right. I want it right. However, I have misplaced my 64 Valiant service manual. Can someone please post a picture of the clutch adjustment rod assemble between the z-bar and the clutch fork? I believe I am missing some kind of washer. The 64 is different than anything anybody sells or shows and I don't want to use the later clutch fork, like Brewer's is telling me to do. Thanks.
 
No 64 manual on my mopar. 65 might be close enough, sometimes the photo from one year are from a previous year.
 
65 actually covers the 66 model too so I dont know if the 65 manual is gonna show you older stuff. Let me look
 
This help? rod-nut-washer-insulator-fork
65clutch.jpg
 
My mopar has the parts manuals. I looked at 63 and 64, doesnt look like it has a clevis. I'll try to get a look at my 64 Valiant later today.
 
@RustyRatRod I sent a couple pics to you in Messenger.

I don't think it's what you want, but I sent them anyway, lol. I cannot find anything that shows the z bar.
 
Here's another drawing from the 64 Mopar Service Manual, Rusty.
IMG_5400.JPG

I'm having the same problem. My rod doesn't go into a swivel at the TO Brg. fork though, it goes into an extended tube. The rod still runs out of thread too soon. Can't guess if my parts are right or not...
IMG_5347.JPG
 
Duggie said:
Here's another drawing from the 64 Mopar Service Manual, Rusty.
View attachment 1715606704
I'm having the same problem. My rod doesn't go into a swivel at the TO Brg. fork though, it goes into an extended tube. The rod still runs out of thread too soon. Can't guess if my parts are right or not...
View attachment 1715606706
Click to expand...

Yours is exactly what I have. It appears I am not missing anything after all. How much of the threaded rod goes into the sleeve attached to the clutch fork? Mine has less than an inch. Seems like it should be more. It works fine, so maybe it's much ado about nothing. Thanks.
 
New clutch, and mine is adjusted to the last 1/2" of threads. I still have a bit too much pedal free play, and 'bumpy' 1st and reverse shifts when at a full stop. I do plan to clean my shift plates in a couple weeks. I'm hopeful that helps!
 
Duggie said:
New clutch, and mine is adjusted to the last 1/2" of threads. I still have a bit too much pedal free play, and 'bumpy' 1st and reverse shifts when at a full stop. I do plan to clean my shift plates in a couple weeks. I'm hopeful that helps!
Click to expand...

That's about like mine. But it yours still has too much free travel, you need to go even more on the adjusting nut. I kinda wonder if it's not these reman clutches that are too thin or the pressure plates machined down too much. There is another option that will work. You can get the longer B body adjuster rod. It's like over 7". Then measure how much it would need to be cut and cut so it just will fit all the way into the sleeve without bottoming out and be "about" the same length as what you have right now. That would give you plenty more adjustment. That's what I plan on doing. That will also get the clutch to release in the correct place in the travel, instead of all the way at the top like it's worn out.
 
That's a good tip. I'll look at a B Body rod if cleaning the shifter plates doesn't make it so smooth, I don't care about pedal free play anymore.
 
Duggie said:
That's a good tip. I'll look at a B Body rod if cleaning the shifter plates doesn't make it so smooth, I don't care about pedal free play anymore.
Click to expand...

That's the important part of the adjustment though. The free travel puts the clutch release and apply "where" it's supposed to be in the clutch travel. It if applies too close to the floor for example, it may not be released all the way. Conversely, if it applies too close to the top of the travel, it might not be applied all the way. I looked again today and the rod to get is actually for the 67 and up A body. That's the one that's over 7" long with plenty of threads. So you can cut it to fit and work correctly. I bet you did like I did and got a run of the mill big box store clutch kit. I am certain that's the trouble. With the later A body rod cut to a more appropriate length, it will work like it's supposed to. If you want to wait until I do mine, I'll report back and let you know how it turned out. That way if it's a total failure, you won't repeat it. LOL
 
RustyRatRod said:
That's the important part of the adjustment though. The free travel puts the clutch release and apply "where" it's supposed to be in the clutch travel. It if applies too close to the floor for example, it may not be released all the way. Conversely, if it applies too close to the top of the travel, it might not be applied all the way. I looked again today and the rod to get is actually for the 67 and up A body. That's the one that's over 7" long with plenty of threads. So you can cut it to fit and work correctly. I bet you did like I did and got a run of the mill big box store clutch kit. I am certain that's the trouble. With the later A body rod cut to a more appropriate length, it will work like it's supposed to. If you want to wait until I do mine, I'll report back and let you know how it turned out. That way if it's a total failure, you won't repeat it. LOL
Click to expand...
I like! I'm a couple weeks away from getting to do more work on the Dart. I'll review the manual concerning clutch play. Now, I have a couple inches of play at the top of the pedal, and the clutch is disengaging maybe three inches off the floor.

Good luck with the rod - mod. I'm rooting for us!:thumbsup:
 
Duggie said:
Here's another drawing from the 64 Mopar Service Manual, Rusty.
View attachment 1715606704
I'm having the same problem. My rod doesn't go into a swivel at the TO Brg. fork though, it goes into an extended tube. The rod still runs out of thread too soon. Can't guess if my parts are right or not...
View attachment 1715606706
Click to expand...

Charrlie_S said:
My mopar has the parts manuals. I looked at 63 and 64, doesnt look like it has a clevis. I'll try to get a look at my 64 Valiant later today.
Click to expand...

Finally quit raining and dried out enough to get a look at my 64 Valiant. It has exactly the same setup as shown. I have never adjusted mine, so have no idea of the amount of thread engagement.
 
RustyRatRod said:
That's the important part of the adjustment though. The free travel puts the clutch release and apply "where" it's supposed to be in the clutch travel. It if applies too close to the floor for example, it may not be released all the way. Conversely, if it applies too close to the top of the travel, it might not be applied all the way. I looked again today and the rod to get is actually for the 67 and up A body. That's the one that's over 7" long with plenty of threads. So you can cut it to fit and work correctly. I bet you did like I did and got a run of the mill big box store clutch kit. I am certain that's the trouble. With the later A body rod cut to a more appropriate length, it will work like it's supposed to. If you want to wait until I do mine, I'll report back and let you know how it turned out. That way if it's a total failure, you won't repeat it. LOL
Click to expand...

Hey Rusty, the little woman and I took the Dart down the Pacific Coast Highways (1 and 101), from Tacoma to LA over the last couple weeks. I didn't want to advertise we were away. Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean I'm not paranoid enough, you know?

I had cutch, or better stated - transmission disengagement issues after the first 500 miles on the road. (New clutch and TO Brg) Finally stopped in Santa Rosa, CA where a shop welded a 1/2" tube to the adjustment rod the threaded rod goes into to increase the ability to adjust the pedal height. Thought it was good until about half way to Santa Cruz, CA. Wouldn't shift into 1st or reverse at a full stop (again) so we left it with a shop in Santa Cruz and took a rental to LA for a wedding. The mechanic says I probably nicked the pilot bushing or bent a pressure plate ear with the transmission input shaft on install, causing the input shaft to not completely disengage when pressing the clutch.

View attachment 1715614322

Pick up the car coming back north and it shifts great leaving the shop. Mechanic says he fussed with the linkage, and didn't need to pull the transmission. A few hundred miles north of the shop, the throw out bearing starts to make a "ticky" sound with my foot off the clutch. The sound goes away with light pressure on the clutch pedal and it's hard to get into 1st and reverse after 5 -6 hours of driving the switchbacks along the coast. This morning the throw out bearing howls when the clutch is fully depressed (cold) and is shifting stiff into 1st and reverse, getting progressively worse as the miles are piled on. I'm ready to throw this clutch assembly in the trash and start over!

If I haven't put you to sleep yet, I do have a couple questions;

Why does the clutch linkage rod holes have a "D" shape for a round pin? Each end of the rod going through the firewall and the end of the throw out adjustment rod that attaches to the Z Bar is D shaped. Lots of slop inside each D opening for the round pin to rattle around in.

And my throw out adjustment rod is touching the exhaust pipe. How much of a gap do you have between the two?

This car started out as an automatic and someone converted it to a 4 spd. Do you know if there are different Z Bars?

I initially thought finding a 4 spd was going to be so much easier than working on a push button auto. I'm choking on that thought just a little...

IMG_5463.JPG
 
Duggie said:
Hey Rusty, the little woman and I took the Dart down the Pacific Coast Highways (1 and 101), from Tacoma to LA over the last couple weeks. I didn't want to advertise we were away. Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean I'm not paranoid enough, you know?

I had cutch, or better stated - transmission disengagement issues after the first 500 miles on the road. (New clutch and TO Brg) Finally stopped in Santa Rosa, CA where a shop welded a 1/2" tube to the adjustment rod the threaded rod goes into to increase the ability to adjust the pedal height. Thought it was good until about half way to Santa Cruz, CA. Wouldn't shift into 1st or reverse at a full stop (again) so we left it with a shop in Santa Cruz and took a rental to LA for a wedding. The mechanic says I probably nicked the pilot bushing or bent a pressure plate ear with the transmission input shaft on install, causing the input shaft to not completely disengage when pressing the clutch.

View attachment 1715614322

Pick up the car coming back north and it shifts great leaving the shop. Mechanic says he fussed with the linkage, and didn't need to pull the transmission. A few hundred miles north of the shop, the throw out bearing starts to make a "ticky" sound with my foot off the clutch. The sound goes away with light pressure on the clutch pedal and it's hard to get into 1st and reverse after 5 -6 hours of driving the switchbacks along the coast. This morning the throw out bearing howls when the clutch is fully depressed (cold) and is shifting stiff into 1st and reverse, getting progressively worse as the miles are piled on. I'm ready to throw this clutch assembly in the trash and start over!

If I haven't put you to sleep yet, I do have a couple questions;

Why does the clutch linkage rod holes have a "D" shape for a round pin? Each end of the rod going through the firewall and the end of the throw out adjustment rod that attaches to the Z Bar is D shaped. Lots of slop inside each D opening for the round pin to rattle around in.

And my throw out adjustment rod is touching the exhaust pipe. How much of a gap do you have between the two?

This car started out as an automatic and someone converted it to a 4 spd. Do you know if there are different Z Bars?

I initially thought finding a 4 spd was going to be so much easier than working on a push button auto. I'm choking on that thought just a little...

View attachment 1715614319
Click to expand...

I honestly do not know why on the D shaped holes, but they are all like that and all of the new replacements are like that. It doesn't matter from a functional standpoint, because all of the slop is adjusted out anyway. But that's a question I do not know the answer to. If I had to "GUESS" I would say the design is to keep and binding from occurring.

As far as my exhaust, it does not touch any linkage at all. As far as I know, it's the original exhaust. The muffler has a Chrysler part number and pentastar and it and the pipe appear to have the same age looking rust.

The only difference in Z bars I am aware of would be maybe Slant Six to V8 and then for the different year models. I am not sure which is different.......I do apologize. I am useless as tits on a boar hog on this one.

THe more I drive mine though, the more I may well enough alone. I really don't know. I may try the later A body rod and shorten it so it is about one inch longer than the original rod. That would not be so much that I could not adjust it right back to where it is, if I had problems. I still have not gotten one yet. Everybody evidently thinks they're made of gold. I can get the whole kit with everything in it for about 45 dollars. But the cheapest I've found "just" the rod is like 25 and I'm not paying that when I can put some more with it and just get the whole kit.
 
Thanks man! We're back home tonight. 2,000 miles of coastal driving in a 56 year old car. What a hoot! I'll get a look under the car by next weekend to see what 'they' did, and pull the tranny for a look at the clutch in a week or two. Something isn't letting the transmission disengage properly, and it changes form bad to worse when going from cold to hot. I think the throw out bearing may have been a causality of the two shops adjusting the pedal up. Maybe...

If you find yourself with a tape measure the same time you are looking at your Z bar, I'd be curious about the distance between the outside of the tube and the top of one of the arms.
:thumbsup:
 
Duggie said:
Thanks man! We're back home tonight. 2,000 miles of coastal driving in a 56 year old car. What a hoot! I'll get a look under the car by next weekend to see what 'they' did, and pull the tranny for a look at the clutch in a week or two. Something isn't letting the transmission disengage properly, and it changes form bad to worse when going from cold to hot. I think the throw out bearing may have been a causality of the two shops adjusting the pedal up. Maybe...

If you find yourself with a tape measure the same time you are looking at your Z bar, I'd be curious about the distance between the outside of the tube and the top of one of the arms.
:thumbsup:
Click to expand...
Even with the issues, isn't it awesome to take your car on a journey over so many miles?
 
Duggie said:
Thanks man! We're back home tonight. 2,000 miles of coastal driving in a 56 year old car. What a hoot! I'll get a look under the car by next weekend to see what 'they' did, and pull the tranny for a look at the clutch in a week or two. Something isn't letting the transmission disengage properly, and it changes form bad to worse when going from cold to hot. I think the throw out bearing may have been a causality of the two shops adjusting the pedal up. Maybe...

If you find yourself with a tape measure the same time you are looking at your Z bar, I'd be curious about the distance between the outside of the tube and the top of one of the arms.
:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Ok. I'll be glad to. I'll be messin with it a little tomorrow so I'll get you a measurement.
 
LocuMob said:
Even with the issues, isn't it awesome to take your car on a journey over so many miles?
Click to expand...

YES!!! I'd do it again tomorrow. It was a total blast. The convertible top was down every day but part of two when up close to home in WA state. The only down side was all the grinning made made my cheeks cramp up.:)
IMG_3365.JPG
IMG_5508.JPG
IMG_5492.JPG
IMG_E5422.JPG
 
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