Power advantage between Ford 351, Mopar 340 and Chevy 350??

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In stock form, obviously you can look up the numbers from tests back in the day. None of us really give a **** about stock form numbers.

If you were to build an all out (factory iron block and heads) engine TODAY, the Cleveland 4V would destroy the Chevy and Mopar. The heads flowed enough with zero port work, to support 500+ HP with no port work. The very best "J headed" LA wouldn't come close.
 
Mean416 said:
In stock form, obviously you can look up the numbers from tests back in the day. None of us really give a **** about stock form numbers.

If you were to build an all out (factory iron block and heads) engine TODAY, the Cleveland 4V would destroy the Chevy and Mopar. The heads flowed enough with zero port work, to support 500+ HP with no port work. The very best "J headed" LA wouldn't come close.
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Yeah, you’d be wrong. A decent W2 head will ru with a 4V Cleveland all damn day. And there are better heads out there than a W2.
 
Rat Bastid said:
Yeah, you’d be wrong. A decent W2 head will ru with a 4V Cleveland all damn day. And there are better heads out there than a W2.
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I think he was talkin about "all out" using production heads, but you'll get no argument from me about the W2.
 
Rat Bastid said:
Yeah, you’d be wrong. A decent W2 head will ru with a 4V Cleveland all damn day. And there are better heads out there than a W2.
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Last I checked W2's never came on any factory based SB mopars.
 
Mean416 said:
Last I checked W2's never came on any factory based SB mopars.
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And Cleveland 4bbl engines never came in entry level cars, like Mavericks and Falcons. You had to move up to Mustangs or Torinos. So, there's no valid apples to apples comparison. When you moved up to B and E Bodies, Hemis were available.
 
S'cuder said:
And Cleveland 4bbl engines never came in entry level cars, like Mavericks and Falcons. You had to move up to Mustangs or Torinos. So, there's no valid apples to apples comparison. When you moved up to B and E Bodies, Hemis were available.
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Sorry, your argument is invalid. Read the title of the post.

ANNND since you want to open it up to big block cars, sure, 426 hemi HANDS DOWN.
 
Mean416 said:
Sorry, your argument is invalid. Read the title of the post.

ANNND since you want to open it up to big block cars, sure, 426 hemi HANDS DOWN.
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Price point comparisons were brought in by another poster fifteen posts before you joined the conversation.
ANNND since you didn't originate the thread, why do you think you get define its parameters on page four?
 
Mean416 said:
Sorry, your argument is invalid. Read the title of the post.
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But actual question was if you built all three very similar including heads, didn’t have to be factory, would they make similar power?

And to me the answer is yes.
 
273 said:
But actual question was if you built all three very similar including heads, didn’t have to be factory, would they make similar power?

And to me the answer is yes.
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The Chrysler would still be number 1 because of lifter diameter and bore spacing.
 
S'cuder said:
Price point comparisons were brought in by another poster fifteen posts before you joined the conversation.
ANNND since you didn't originate the thread, why do you think you get define its parameters on page four?
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Well, because OBVIOUSLY I skipped to page four before posting. :D
 
Rat Bastid said:
The Chrysler would still be number 1 because of lifter diameter and bore spacing.
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I see what your saying, I think the OP was getting at something like if all 3 had an edelbrock rpm top end, comp 285 cam 10:1 cr 1 3/4 headers would the power numbers be similar.
 
PW ratio I think the LT1 350 wins all day long and on Sunday.
 
S'cuder said:
And Cleveland 4bbl engines never came in entry level cars, like Mavericks and Falcons. You had to move up to Mustangs or Torinos. So, there's no valid apples to apples comparison. When you moved up to B and E Bodies, Hemis were available.
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Maybe that is true in the states but in Aus we only had clevelands from about 1971 all in 4 barrel form with 351 and 302 but they were assembled locally with a hybred cyl head that was half way between a 4V and a 2V open chamber head and they were gas guslers with poor performance. I had cop cars for years and my VJ Charger with 265 hemi 2 barrel four speed was a lot faster than my Falcon 351 4 speeds and used half the fuel doing so. My charger ran 15.7 stock and just by putting a 600 holley and extractors( Headers) it ran 14.7 qtrs all day long.
 
S'cuder said:
And Cleveland 4bbl engines never came in entry level cars, like Mavericks and Falcons. You had to move up to Mustangs or Torinos. So, there's no valid apples to apples comparison. When you moved up to B and E Bodies, Hemis were available.
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This is an excellent point. The Cleveland is a TIGHT fit in Falcons and Mavericks. They'll fit, but it's a *****.
 
Mean416 said:
In stock form, obviously you can look up the numbers from tests back in the day. None of us really give a **** about stock form numbers.

If you were to build an all out (factory iron block and heads) engine TODAY, the Cleveland 4V would destroy the Chevy and Mopar. The heads flowed enough with zero port work, to support 500+ HP with no port work. The very best "J headed" LA wouldn't come close.
Click to expand...

Actually a Cleveland 4V has a horrible massive combustion chamber and big lazy ports. I've built a few and at pump gas compression ratios and with civil, driveable camshafts they don't even make 1hp/ci--like 340ish hp with lackluster torque 370ish. An absolutely comparably built 340 usually winds up at 380-390hp ish/390-400 tq ish--lol and with fewer cubes. You're not wrong--the flow of the Cleveland can support very high levels of power just like the vaunted HEMI--but inactual reality the big stupid ports and not enough cubes makes them sluggish and unresponsive on the street. I would love to see a shootout where OEM cast iron heads are used (porting allowed--make them Clevelands bigger-lol) and the cams are spec'd the same and compression is set at 10-1. Base the score on average HP/Tq ALA Enginemaster comp. $100 bucks the Cleveland doesn't even podium. J.Rob
 
RAMM said:
Actually a Cleveland 4V has a horrible massive combustion chamber and big lazy ports. I've built a few and at pump gas compression ratios and with civil, driveable camshafts they don't even make 1hp/ci--like 340ish hp with lackluster torque 370ish. An absolutely comparably built 340 usually winds up at 380-390hp ish/390-400 tq ish--lol and with fewer cubes. You're not wrong--the flow of the Cleveland can support very high levels of power just like the vaunted HEMI--but inactual reality the big stupid ports and not enough cubes makes them sluggish and unresponsive on the street. I would love to see a shootout where OEM cast iron heads are used (porting allowed--make them Clevelands bigger-lol) and the cams are spec'd the same and compression is set at 10-1. Base the score on average HP/Tq ALA Enginemaster comp. $100 bucks the Cleveland doesn't even podium. J.Rob
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The early 4V engines have a pretty efficient closed chamber. I agree about the later ones.
 
RustyRatRod said:
The early 4V engines have a pretty efficient closed chamber. I agree about the later ones.
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Yeah small chamber and a massive port. The Aussie's had the best of both worlds with the smaller 2V port and nice tight chamber. The 4v stuff was just BIG. J.Rob
 
RAMM said:
Yeah small chamber and a massive port. The Aussie's had the best of both worlds with the smaller 2V port and nice tight chamber. The 4v stuff was just BIG. J.Rob
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Certainly big for most anything under 5500.
 
fishmens67 said:
Hemi's were a stone on the street.
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With the factory tune up in them, they were not strong. 440-6 would eat em up in the front half.

A hemi with a good tune up on it would walk the 440-6 easily.
 
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