Power Nation /6

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BillGrissom said:
Member Bill Dedman of Conway, AR used to argue that boost was an excellent match to overcome the slant's poor breathing. He built a turbocharged slant and drove it a bit, saying just "scary fast". His last post was July 31, 2016. He said he was in his 70's then, so perhaps his racing hobby had to end.

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Sadly, Bill passed a couple of years ago.
 
Yunick13 said:
The fact that Chrysler is doing a turbo 6 cyl now from the factory with similar power output as this engine kinda puts a different perspective on things.
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Suppose you welded cut up DOHC 4 valve heads from say the Mazdaspeed 2.3 turbo engine. You could direct inject water to control detonation and have high port flow. You could also have VVT.
 
Charrlie_S said:
Sadly, Bill passed a couple of years ago.
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Thanks. I was guessing something like that, or at least sidelined by declining health. Looks like he never had much time to enjoy his turbo-ed slant. Like most here, he had to deal with constant trolling from V-8 proponents who love to bother members in the slant six forum. I have Mopars with a slant, SB, and BB, and all are staying with the engines they rolled out of the factory, albeit with a few mod's.
 
BillGrissom said:
Thanks. I was guessing something like that, or at least sidelined by declining health. Looks like he never had much time to enjoy his turbo-ed slant. Like most here, he had to deal with constant trolling from V-8 proponents who love to bother members in the slant six forum. I have Mopars with a slant, SB, and BB, and all are staying with the engines they rolled out of the factory, albeit with a few mod's.
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I'm unsure Bill even got to drive it around the block, sadly.
 
RustyRatRod said:
What a wheezer head!
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I didn't know they were THAT bad in stock form.
I went looking for that sort of info when I built my engine since I never got to flow the head before any work was done to it/ but so did after the work that was done to it, was done.
On that note the bench that mine was tested on, has moved to "unreachable" distance from here recently.
I do appreciate the opportunity to have had one done /if only for curiosity.
 
volaredon said:
I didn't know they were THAT bad in stock form.
I went looking for that sort of info when I built my engine since I never got to flow the head before any work was done to it/ but so did after the work that was done to it, was done.
On that note the bench that mine was tested on, has moved to "unreachable" distance from here recently.
I do appreciate the opportunity to have had one done /if only for curiosity.
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Find my unicorn head thread. I provided both before and after porting flow. The only thing not provided was the flow after the final valve job. Porter says I can add probably another 10-15%.
 
Ive seen it, but not recently. I've slept since I saw it last
 
Dorian said:
Do they have a price breakdown? what would it cost to build similar motor with and without turbo
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A lot. And the thing is, while the head had port work, it did not have over size valves, which I find more than curious.
 
Dorian said:
probably did minimal head work so they can upgrade down the road.
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I think it was because slant sixes are new to them. Had they known what a cork the stock head is, they'd have done the bigger valves now. Either way, the results are impressive.
 
Dorian said:
probably did minimal head work so they can upgrade down the road.
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Probably just did what they did for now as a baseline? Hopefully they come back with a modded head to compare with and all else the same as is now?
 
I'd love to see what my unicorn head would do on it.
 
Re intake valve size, that can be overcome with boost. Given the higher pressure drop from the valves, perhaps running 15 psig boost would give similar cylinder pressure as 10 psig boost in an engine with better breathing. Bigger exhaust valves might help more since boost has no effect on their flowrate. I expect that in 10 years, there will be very affordable electric-motor blowers. There are already some you can buy which work, say $1000, though not the <$500 ones on ebay.
 
BillGrissom said:
Re intake valve size, that can be overcome with boost. Given the higher pressure drop from the valves, perhaps running 15 psig boost would give similar cylinder pressure as 10 psig boost in an engine with better breathing. Bigger exhaust valves might help more since boost has no effect on their flowrate. I expect that in 10 years, there will be very affordable electric-motor blowers. There are already some you can buy which work, say $1000, though not the <$500 ones on ebay.
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I agree.....but larger valves will never take away.
 
Norm.P said:
I would have liked to see the Gill MKII manifold on that thing.
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halfafish said:
Dang that's a thing of beauty! Talk about some smackdown at the street or strip!! I'd love to see it in an early A with all the supporting drivetrain and suspension mods it would need. I volunteer my 64 Valiant as a test mule, if anyone is listening...
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RustyRatRod said:
Get in line, buddy. lol
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I put the MarkII on my 1964 Dart current build. Giant PIA but looks cool. Photos below are not current.
Radiator had to be moved and some significant trimming to allow for intercooler.

Yes- many mods for early A body. Dave and Bryce Gills turbo kit doesn’t fit early A body either. All this stuff would drop right in my 69 but engine bay is just too different on early A.

I’ve sent Dave and Bryce pics of what we fabbed for turbo and I’m sure they will improve it.

Yep. Lots of suspension mods and I dropped a ton in my 904 build to use lower first gear and updated input shaft with more splines and deeper clutch drum. Yada yada yada.

I narrowed an 8 3/4 with minutia and XD springs with adjustable shocks all way around and disc brakes as well.

What’s it cost? A frickin fortune and my son and I doing it ourselves but the experience with him is priceless.

Supposed to have the block and head etc back in next few weeks so I can assemble and get rolling.

I haven’t wired in the MS3 pro yet as I want to see where everything exactly lands before terminating ends.

We did some significant differences on machine approach though. 5cc dished pistons and copper head gasket with a fire ring to help with increased boost to keep it all together. Compression of 9/1 with oversized valves in head with a bit of bowl cleaning and pocket porting.

The lifter issue I don’t see how they resolved but my machinist has built engines with Pat front hat show and he thinks they just got the lifters drilled but didn’t modify the block to make that relevant. Same oil through pushrods and rockers.

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BillGrissom said:
They spent much time on research and collecting parts. I wonder what funds their efforts. Just ad revenue? Funny they said sourcing a forged crankshaft is hard since people still give away slant-six engines, after ripping them out to install a small-block. A quick google found the cast-crankshaft didn't begin until mid-1976. They would have been better using an earlier block than make all the mod's to fit the forged crank in the late block. I wonder if they had invested in machining the block before they found that issue. The stoutest blocks are said to be ~1974, with 5 core plugs and a thicker front web.
Crankshaft Type/Source/Casting Number? - Slant Six Forum

11 psi boost is probably conservative for the slant, given the higher pressure drops in the intake. What matters is cylinder pressure, but can't know that without special in-cylinder sensors (built into spark plugs for engineering testing). My 1985 M-B 5 cyl turbo-diesel is set for ~10 psi turbo boost. Like the slant, it has intake and exhaust on the same side, so similarly restricted breathing. It has under-piston oil squirters, which seems common in factory turbocharged engines.

Member Bill Dedman of Conway, AR used to argue that boost was an excellent match to overcome the slant's poor breathing. He built a turbocharged slant and drove it a bit, saying just "scary fast". His last post was July 31, 2016. He said he was in his 70's then, so perhaps his racing hobby had to end. When battery-car owners brag of the Tesla Model S Plaid factory 1/4-mile time of 9.3 sec (price $108K), I link this slant-six A-body "grocery-getter" running 9.09 sec (albeit with turbo).

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Bill was legend. I still have e mails he would send me in the early 1990s when I was trying to get a 69 Dart 440 to qualify in stock eliminator. He was a wealth of knowledge. RIP Bill
 
Broke Farmer said:
Bill was legend. I still have e mails he would send me in the early 1990s when I was trying to get a 69 Dart 440 to qualify in stock eliminator. He was a wealth of knowledge. RIP Bill
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Bill was awesome. I really enjoyed our banter. I still have him as a friend on Facebook. Evidently, someone is keeping his page going.
 
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