Proportioning valve options with disk brake conversion.

-

jawbone

Cuda_queer
FABO Gold Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2017
Messages
872
Reaction score
375
Location
Richardson, TX
In the middle of front suspension rebuild on 68 Barracuda. Originally a /6 car with 9 inch drums. Upon completion will have manual front factory disk brakes and 15/16 bore master cylinder as spec. for 75 Dart with power brakes and 10 X 2.5 rear drums. With front suspension removed, noticed I had good access to distribution valve. Question, is there a direct replacement distribution valve with integral proportioning valve? If not is there a pre-fab conversion to place proportioning valve at master cylinder? Am trying not to cut into existing brake line to rear wheels for installation of proportioning valve. What about the smaller rear wheel cylinders. Is that an option?

More Information for RAYBESTOS MC36406
 
Last edited:
Factory disc brakes located the proportioning valve midway between front and back. I would think that any distribution block with a "built-in" proportioning valve would work. I would expect some re-bending of the lines would be needed.
 
Factory disc brakes located the proportioning valve midway between front and back. I would think that any distribution block with a "built-in" proportioning valve would work. I would expect some re-bending of the lines would be needed.
The re-bending of the existing lines is where I did not want to go. Figured so many members have done this is so many different ways that one would suit me. Thanks for your response.
 
Factory disc brakes located the proportioning valve midway between front and back. I would think that any distribution block with a "built-in" proportioning valve would work. I would expect some re-bending of the lines would be needed.
That would be for the earlier Kelsey/Hayes discs. I would assume the OP is using the later single-piston discs on his '75. That prop/distribution combination valve mounts in the same place whether disc or drum, minor tweeks may be needed for the lines, very minor.
 
i mean, yeah.

it'd be real interesting in the front!
Hey, I take nothing for granted- I got into it with a guy in another thread a while back who swears up and down that the prop valve goes in the line for the front brakes... I won't mention names but I hope I'm never on the same road as him.
 
The 73-up disc/drum distribution block includes a proportioning valve... HOWEVER, when I tried to use that on my slant six to disc conversion, it had way too much rear bias. So I wound up adding a Summit adjustable proportioning valve. You can install this WITHOUT cutting or bending any lines. Here is how you do it:
1. Buy a short piece of premade brake line form O'Reilly's or whoever — something around 16-20 inches should do it.
2. Bend this into a circle with a tubing bender, so that the two ends are next to each other.
3. Undo the line at the distribution block that goes to the rear brakes. Attach one end of the loop instead.
4. The other end of the loop goes into the input end of the new proportioning valve.
5. Connect the output of the proportioning valve to the rear brake line.

The purpose of the large loop is to provide enough flexibility so that you can locate the new proportioning valve directly beside the distribution block, so that the rear brake line only has to flex a few degrees to one side — you don't even have to put a hard bend into it. My block had a handy protruding bracket that I just attached the PV to, with the adjusting knob pointing up. Mounted low like this, it isn't super obvious lookin into the engine compartment, but it is easily reached for adjusting.

In my case, I had to turn the rear bias down to only about 20-25% (3/4 of the way from full rear bias).

In case I didn't make it clear, you can do this same installation using the stock drum brake distribution block, if that's what you have.
 
Last edited:
The 73-up disc/drum distribution block includes a proportioning valve... HOWEVER, when I tried to use that on my slant six to disc conversion, it had way too much rear bias. So I wound up adding a Summit adjustable proportioning valve. You can install this
That's why the undersized rear cylinders are recommended, because the factory bias was still a bit off.
 
Undersized rear cylinders would make the rear bias worse. It would take less fluid flow to apply the rear brakes — that is the opposite of what you want. You want the rear brakes to come in SLOWER, not quicker.

An adjustable PV solves the entire problem.
 
Undersized rear cylinders would make the rear bias worse. It would take less fluid flow to apply the rear brakes — that is the opposite of what you want. You want the rear brakes to come in SLOWER, not quicker.

An adjustable PV solves the entire problem.

It’s not about the velocity or volume, it’s about the diameter of the piston in the wheel cylinder because that changes the pressure (just like the adjustable valve). The change in fluid velocity/flow moving the tiny, tiny difference in volume by changing diameters is 100% negligible.

It’s not about changing the speed of the rear brakes actuation, you’re reducing the force exerted by the rear brakes. And that’s the same when you install the adjustable prop valve.
 
If having to do a new pvalve wouldn’t it be better off just going with something like wilwood adjustable pvalve. Not that much more in price along with rear bias adjustment
 
It’s not about the velocity or volume, it’s about the diameter of the piston in the wheel cylinder because that changes the pressure (just like the adjustable valve). The change in fluid velocity/flow moving the tiny, tiny difference in volume by changing diameters is 100% negligible.

It’s not about changing the speed of the rear brakes actuation, you’re reducing the force exerted by the rear brakes. And that’s the same when you install the adjustable prop valve.
Why is a MC with 15/16 dia bore recommended for manual front disc brakes or did I get this wrong?
 
Why is a MC with 15/16 dia bore recommended for manual front disc brakes or did I get this wrong?

Because the smaller bore MC increases the line pressure, while also slightly increasing the pedal travel needed to fully apply the brakes. That gives you more stopping power, but also makes it a bit easier to control the brake modulation. The longer travel makes the brakes less “on/off”.

The ratio between the master cylinder bore and the caliper pistons and wheel cylinder diameters is the inportant part for determining line pressure and stopping power.
 
If having to do a new pvalve wouldn’t it be better off just going with something like wilwood adjustable pvalve. Not that much more in price along with rear bias adjustment

Depends on what you want, some people probably don’t want to have to go through the procedure to adjust the valve, others might want it to look mostly factory, etc.
 
Because the smaller bore MC increases the line pressure, while also slightly increasing the pedal travel needed to fully apply the brakes. That gives you more stopping power, but also makes it a bit easier to control the brake modulation. The longer travel makes the brakes less “on/off”.

The ratio between the master cylinder bore and the caliper pistons and wheel cylinder diameters is the inportant part for determining line pressure and stopping power.
Thanks for the response.
 
I think adding an adjustable PV is less complicated then replacing both rear wheel cylinders, and has a higher probability of a successful outcome. But YMMV...
 
I think adding an adjustable PV is less complicated then replacing both rear wheel cylinders, and has a higher probability of a successful outcome. But YMMV...
Thanks for the reply. Always interested in what other people think.
 
I think adding an adjustable PV is less complicated then replacing both rear wheel cylinders, and has a higher probability of a successful outcome. But YMMV...

Depends on how you add the adjustable valve. I wouldn’t put a big loop in my brake line so that would mean making new brake lines which is definitely more time consuming than swapping the wheel cylinders.

I have an adjustable valve installed on my car because I run rear disks and wanted to be able to adjust the bias, but I also made new lines for it.

Some folks just prefer things to look more original. Either way you’re adjusting the line pressure to change the bias.
 
The 68 Barracudas have huge rear wheelhouses, that I personally have fit up to 325/50-15s into. Yes into, and dropped the car back close to factory ride height or a lil lower. However, most of the time, she is running 295s.
I had started with 235fronts and 245rears, (both 14s) with a P-valve from a 73>75 Dart. But the 245s were a poor match to my 367. There were a lot of unscheduled spin-outs. So Next up were a used pair of 275/50-15s , which were not much better.
Next up were another pair of used tires, this time 275/60-15s. Meh, they were used and already hard, so again, I just burned thru them. But I did notice with these, that I tended not to spin out as frequently.
Finally I had had enough.
I moved the springs and narrowed the rear, to put on the 295s. That was a hit! These now made controlling the rear end waaaay easier, and no more wipe-outs.
The 325s I made fit, just to parade around with at the car shows, and to run a few trips down the track with.
Most of these tires are so much bigger than the factory tires (D78s IIRC), that the factory proportioning don't mean a thing.
I decided to explore that, by gutting the P-valve, and she now runs equal line pressure front and back.
On the front are the capable KH 4-pots.
The rear now has 10" brakes and I swapped out the rear Wheel cylinders several times, for each tire size; so, not sure what is back there today, might be 1 inchers.
I swapped out the big M/C for a 15/16th which I much prefer the feel of. and I run a big F-body-type booster.

So, I can tell you this;
when I stomp the brake pedal now, it's like I imagine throwing out parachute would feel like, after jumping out of a plane; and with very little front-end dive. and the car now wears out rear shoes between 2 and 3 times as often as the fronts. and no, there is ZERO tendency for the rear to come around. I can stomp the pedal in mid-turn with confidence.

What's my point?
1) Well, what size street tires are you planning to run? That's gonna help you make these decisions, and if you ever change rear tire sizes, I highly recommend to revisit your brake-bias.
2) if yur installing a 360, I highly recommend at least 275/60-15s. else it will be very difficult to keep the back in the back, especially with a 750 DP carb, unless maybe you have an early-shifting automatic with a very low stall. ...... but who does that, lol.
3) if you have a 318, well for the most part, they will never have a preponderance of torque, so you may get away with less tire, and that means, less rear brake, unless you manage to have a lotta front brake, which will require more than 235s, which will require you to massage the fenders and or, cut them to make room for turning.
On the street, I find 235/60-14s to be adequate with the 295/50-15s; they seem to be a pretty good match for eachother.
Whatever,
Happy HotRodding.
 
-
Back
Top