Pst? Firmfeel? Hotchkis? Worth it?

[Lazares81]

Hey everyone im heavily considering redoing the front end on my 73 swinger again soon, ive been reading a lot in mopar muscle about the hotchkis stuff, then i started to do some more research and have found a few things i wanted to run past the forums here for advice. Hotchkis, PST, and Firmfeel all offer what seems to be the same quick ratio steering kit with a new pitman and idler arm to cut lock to lock steering down to 2.75 turns instead of 3.5, question is there truly a performance difference between them as all three manufactures have different prices.
Next question is PST and Hotchkis both offer similar front end kits, tubular upper arms, adjustable strut rods, torsion bars, sway bars, ect... again is there really a performance difference because the prices on these items are vastly different. Cause if there is not a huge or true performance difference i would much rather save almost 400 and just buy the PST parts.
Final question is firmfeel makes the high performance gear boxes, has anyone ever used or driven one, is it really a huge difference? the person over the phone compared it to a early 2000 BMW 3 series feel, is there any truth to this? what should i really expect?
Thanks for all advice and any input I need it or else i have a feeling Im truly going to spend more cash than needed

 

[mischiefdart]

I have a '73 style k-frame in my '70 dart and did a few mods to improve the handling. I used the stock control arms but braced the lowers and used offset bushings in the uppers to increase the amount of positive caster. I have 1.03" torsion bars and they made a huge difference. For now I am running a stock front sway bar and no rear bar. I reduced the psi on the power steering pump by reshimming the pressure relief valve spring. I am very happy with the improvement over how it was stock. I plan to go to a firm feel stage three power steering box, helwig 1 1/8" hollow front bar, bilstien shocks and hotchkis leaf springs. I don't think that you can really compare the handling of a modern car to a vintage car that has been upgraded. The technology has changed so much in the last ten years let alone going back to the sixties and seventies.

 

[Kern Dog]

The Hotchkis stuff gets great reviews, as does the stuff from Firm Feel and Helwig. If you are not very mechanically inclined, a "Kit" may be a safe way to go.
I'm a bit more adventurous. Everything in my 70 Charger was bought individually. I have tried a few different parts to arrive at what I think is a well balanced car. Medium spring/torsion bar rates and large anti-sway bars give my car a decent ride with excellent handling on tap whan I need it. I'm sure that by buying stuff the way that I did I probably spent more, but in the end, the car handles the way that I like.

 

[autoxcuda]

I have a '73 style k-frame in my '70 dart and did a few mods to improve the handling. I used the stock control arms but braced the lowers and used offset bushings in the uppers to increase the amount of positive caster. I have 1.03" torsion bars and they made a huge difference. For now I am running a stock front sway bar and no rear bar. I reduced the psi on the power steering pump by reshimming the pressure relief valve spring. I am very happy with the improvement over how it was stock. I plan to go to a firm feel stage three power steering box, helwig 1 1/8" hollow front bar, bilstien shocks and hotchkis leaf springs. I don't think that you can really compare the handling of a modern car to a vintage car that has been upgraded. The technology has changed so much in the last ten years let alone going back to the sixties and seventies.

Sounds like a decent low cost plan. About what I ran in my Barracuda from 1993-2010.

The Firm Feel steering gear are really nice. I just drove around a 70K mile original 340 car with power steering. WAY over power assisted.

There are other factors to reducing the over assisted steering: small diameter steerin wheel, 3-5 pos caster with offset bushings or tubular control arms, Z rated tires, low profile tires 60, 50, 45 series.

 

[autoxcuda]

... Hotchkis, PST, and Firmfeel all offer what seems to be the same quick ratio steering kit with a new pitman and idler arm to cut lock to lock steering down to 2.75 turns instead of 3.5, question is there truly a performance difference between them as all three manufactures have different prices. ....

The longer pitman and idler will not work on any A-body with full length headers. The are very tricky and will take custom exhaust head pipes to with with stock HiPo cast iron exhaust manifolds.

The pitman is about 1" longer than your stock one. So measure at least 1" behind what you have now to see the room.

 

[gold66cuda]

I have had a 66 Cuda for 24 years and have done many suspension mods. It currently has a Firm Feel box with a reduced pressure pump, Firm Feel upper control arms, boxed lowers, Hellwig hollow 1 1/4" front sway bar, MP 1.14 torsion bars, Hotchkis strut rods, frame connectors, Hotchkis hollow rear sway bar and rear springs, Stainless Steel 4 piston front brakes and Dr Diff rear disc brakes with crossdrilled front and rear rotors. All this is powered by a " big 340", 4 speed and 3:91 gears and weighs 3274 LBS, I have never driven a BMW 3 or do I want to but I would sure put my ride up against one any day of the week and twice on Sundays! All these manufacturers make great quality stuff!

 

[autoxcuda]

I have had a 66 Cuda for 24 years and have done many suspension mods. It currently has a Firm Feel box with a reduced pressure pump, Firm Feel upper control arms, boxed lowers, Hellwig hollow 1 1/4" front sway bar, MP 1.14 torsion bars, Hotchkis strut rods, frame connectors, Hotchkis hollow rear sway bar and rear springs, Stainless Steel 4 piston front brakes and Dr Diff rear disc brakes with crossdrilled front and rear rotors. All this is powered by a " big 340", 4 speed and 3:91 gears and weighs 3274 LBS, I have never driven a BMW 3 or do I want to but I would sure put my ride up against one any day of the week and twice on Sundays! All these manufacturers make great quality stuff!

3274 lbs is real good. What stuff have you done to lighten it?

With the big rear window, I bet it's got good F/R weight percentage?

 

[mopardude318]

hmm...i dont know.......Im not saying you CAN'T......BUT.....trying to outrun a BMW M series in a classic mopar would be a VERY hard task in my opinion....Those M series BMW's are some tuff competitors....i've ridden in just a standard 2009 BMW 335 and holy hell, those grip the road like no other....

 

[gold66cuda]

It has aluminum heads and intake as you would expect, aluminum seat brackets, aluminum rear caliper brackets, aluminum front calipers, lightened bumper brackets, aluminum rad, lightened pedals, parts of the rear seat back and storage area cut out but still carpeted and a few more things. The Hotchkis springs saved a bunch as well. It has rallye wheels as it is still small bolt and as you know light wheel choices in small bolt are kind of rare, Coys will make me a set just haven't had time to get them yet. I am up on the list of the Passon 5 speed when Jamie gets those done and hope to save 40 or so pounds there as well. I should get this thing down around 3200 maybe 3180 if I am lucky. F and R weight is pretty good but still a bit tail happy with a 245/15 rear tire.

 

[gold66cuda]

Well I didnt say I would beat one but I would not be afraid to give it a try, just something about the guys that drive them! The point being that with the aftermarket parts that are out there now you can vastly improve the handling of a 40 year old Mopar.

 

[mopardude318]

Well I didnt say I would beat one but I would not be afraid to give it a try, just something about the guys that drive them! The point being that with the aftermarket parts that are out there now you can vastly improve the handling of a 40 year old Mopar.

I agree! I am very thankful that there are products out there to really make our mopars handle exceptionally well for what they are!!!

 

[autoxcuda]

It has aluminum heads and intake as you would expect, aluminum seat brackets, aluminum rear caliper brackets, aluminum front calipers, lightened bumper brackets, aluminum rad, lightened pedals, parts of the rear seat back and storage area cut out but still carpeted and a few more things. The Hotchkis springs saved a bunch as well. It has rallye wheels as it is still small bolt and as you know light wheel choices in small bolt are kind of rare, Coys will make me a set just haven't had time to get them yet. I am up on the list of the Passon 5 speed when Jamie gets those done and hope to save 40 or so pounds there as well. I should get this thing down around 3200 maybe 3180 if I am lucky. F and R weight is pretty good but still a bit tail happy with a 245/15 rear tire.

Pictures of your lightened pedals?

What is you F/R percentage?