furrystump
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9.5” converter?
PTC converters switches hands
- Thread starter pittsburghracer
- Start date
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Just a follow up to our discussion.
Got a loaner converter from a member here to try. Advertised 5300 stall, flashes at 5500 in my car and works WAY better all around than the converter I had in the car. Tight in the pits so I'm not revving to the moon to move the car, flashes hard at 5500 rpm, leaves hard and feels fully engaged pulling throughout the run unlike the old one that left like a wet noodle and felt like it was slipping the entire pass. 60' times went from 1.52's to 1.41's so the theory of issue with the converter was validated. 1/4 mile ET went from 10.80's @ 124 to 10.30's @ 130. Still needs more converter just like I thought. 5800-6000 should be perfect.
6200
I can verify 5760 works good but I’ve never tried a 6200 stall
When I talk to Transmission Specialties I’m going to have a spare made for my black duster but I also want to talk to them about using it as a NA converter behind my 572.
B3422w5
Well-Known Member
I talked to Paul for almost 2 hours last week with turbo action
What a nice guy, he told me my cam is way to small (which it is by 10-12 degrees) but wants me to run a 5400 stall.
That's with a peak torque of 4900 and peak horsepower at 5850.
I've heard from most people that 400-500 over peak will really help out with rpm drop from shifts.
You guys probably already knew that but it was good to hear the same thing from the converter dude himself.
What a nice guy, he told me my cam is way to small (which it is by 10-12 degrees) but wants me to run a 5400 stall.
That's with a peak torque of 4900 and peak horsepower at 5850.
I've heard from most people that 400-500 over peak will really help out with rpm drop from shifts.
You guys probably already knew that but it was good to hear the same thing from the converter dude himself.
BVoelzke
Well-Known Member
Wow Boosted !! thats a nice improvement !! reminds me of a similar situation for me years ago : my 340 was broken and I threw a 318 in just to keep racing it ran 13.20s ( 318, 360 heads and a 340 cam , 904 , 3.91 gears ) I had a 10 converter .. I put in a Turbo- Action 8 inch ( still have it and run it today as well as an identical spare both redone by Ultimate ) my 60 fts dropped as well as my E.Ts from 13.20s to 12.60s
That same converter that Boosted is using knocked .50-.60 off my sons car years ago on a 10 second build. And like Boosted was going from another race converter to this one. I’ve said it 100 times but guys will build a super nice engine and handicap it with a mild street converter. I had my eyes open in the 1980’s when I built a very mild (484 purple shaft cam) stock piston 340 engine for a friend that bought my 1972 duster. He also bought my J converter and his second time ever to a drag strip ran 12.20’s. Back in those days the Turbo Action 4200 and 4400 were very popular but the J converter was king.
9secRR
Well-Known Member
Lenny from Ultimate Converter built mine 400 rpm over peak torque. car liked it, went from 11.10 to 10.85. gained 4 mph and launched way harder, 1.60 to 1.55.
this happens so often. the converter is over looked and then wonder why the car is such a dog.
Maybe Saturday we'll see what the 9.5" PTC will do for the 318 Duster.... It's not even the same car on the street
Put a real converter in it and you’ll have to beg for mercy. Lol
BVoelzke
Well-Known Member
Ultimate is great ! I know Lenny sold the business a few years ago to Montgomery.. I have a 92 D150 5.2 ( 318 ) nothing special with a few bolt ons: shorty headers, ram air system etc, T/A shift kit in 518 trans and 4.10 gears with drag radials and swap meet traction bars it runs low 15s with a best of 14.98 now ... my 60 fts were in the low 2.20s back then I was going to buy a cheap off the shelf converter I called Lenny he said send me your stock lock up converter , I did he went thru it and my 60 fts dropped from 2.20s to 2.00s ... two tenths !
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6PKRTSE
Well-Known Member
I have 3 PTC converters in 3 of my street cars. All work great and flash where they are supposed to.
One 10" 3200 in my Charger.
One 9.5" 4000 in my Roached Runner.
One 9" 5600 in my Challenger.
All have nice tame friendly street cruiser manners until flashed as needed or trans brake launched. Then they react as necessary.
One 10" 3200 in my Charger.
One 9.5" 4000 in my Roached Runner.
One 9" 5600 in my Challenger.
All have nice tame friendly street cruiser manners until flashed as needed or trans brake launched. Then they react as necessary.
Yes, I agree Paul Forte is great! Season before last when I still had my 72 Dart I was having some problems with the 727 in it after have a transbrake valve body installed by an alleged TF guru down in Conneticut. Since I'm not real knowledgeable on the voodoo magic that occurs in auto trans I asked a local mopar racer up here in Maine who has a transmission shop if he would look at it. He did and when he disassembled my 727 he saw some things that he questioned, and seeing that the TB valve body was a Turbo Action unit he called Paul. Now keep in mind that the Conneticut TF 'guru' told me he installed a brand new valve body in my 727. Paul asked for the serial number off the valve body and it turns out he originally sold it back in 1987 or 88!!!! Paul also shared that with this particular valve body some modifications had to be made to the transmission in order for it to function properly. So the local guy up here incorporated the changes and the transmission and TB worked like gang busters after. I thought it amazing that Paul still had info on a valve body that he sold almost 30 years ago!
Awesome
B3422w5
Well-Known Member
I feel stupid when I had my trans out last year not sending the converter in and getting it adjusted.
It flashes about 4900 ish. It’s nice and tight, which I like, but I am sure the combo would love the flash at about 5400 or so.
This is likely my last year of racing, so it leaves something I guess for the new owner to tinker with down the road.Along with a roller cam.
It flashes about 4900 ish. It’s nice and tight, which I like, but I am sure the combo would love the flash at about 5400 or so.
This is likely my last year of racing, so it leaves something I guess for the new owner to tinker with down the road.Along with a roller cam.
superbeesrt8
Well-Known Member
Your not retiring till your 6 ft under
Something to keep in mind, there is no “magic” number on where a torque converter should flash/stall at in relation to the engines peak torque or peak horsepower. Each car and combo is different. That is why converter manufactures want SO much information when spec’ing a torque converter. If the engine peak torque and horsepower was all that mattered when building a torque converter, then setting up converters would be easy, more people would do it themselves, and stall speed would much more of a mathematical certainty.
Paul at Turbo Action is awesome to talk to. He’s very informative, he helps educate you, and he is able to offer information like he did for Korie when it comes to camshaft design, where the camshaft should be degreed in at, etc. He also will not give you a set number where a converter will stall at, he gives you a ballpark range, and for a very good reason. One thing Paul never asked me on the phone with the many many many 1hour+ long conversations I have had with him is “what power and torque did this engine make on the dyno?” Why? He knows that Dynos (like flow benches) are not all created equal. They are tools that we use as racers to help give us an edge.
I thoroughly believe in using flow benches when porting heads and engine dynos after assembling an engine. But the numbers are only as good as the equipment being used combined with the operator’s experience and knowledge to make those tools function properly. If Paul only cared about things such as peak torque and peak power, he would likely not be a very successful converter manufacturer. I myself am not a converter expert or “guru” for lack of a better term. But I do understand how they function and why things such as stall speed and efficiency are based on much much more than an engines peak power and torque level. I think as racers and automotive enthusiasts, if we all dug a little deeper into the inner workings of a torque converter, we would understand why things such as stall speed, are not mathematically certain.
Good example, close friend of mine and Pittsburghracer has vast experience with engine assembly, engine dyno, head porting, head flowing, and racing. He built himself a 540 big block back in 2012 and before putting it in the car, put it on a dyno. A dyno that he helped the machine owner build. The engine made peak torque of 740 ft/lbs at 5600 rpm (don’t quote me but it was around 5600, plus or minus 100), and it made peak engine horsepower of 880 at 7200-7300 rpm (again, plus or minus 100). He runs a turbo action converter that stalls at 6600-6800rpm.
On 1/4 mile, he always carries high MPH along with fast ET, and 60’ is always good when car hooks (90%+ of the time it hooks). So he is “flashing” his converter WAY above the peak torque value and the car hauls ***. When I talked to Paul about his torque converter (and my own torque converter) when I dropped the spare off on my way to vacation in 2021, I asked Paul if he advised of a stall change. If any change there was to make, he wanted both of us to increase stall speed! Because we were very happy with the way the converters functioned, and how the cars performed, we ultimately decided to not increase, but leave alone and keep for spares like they were intended to be anyway. I apologize for the long post, but I feel there is too much misconception out there about torque converters and where stall should be at, how a high stall converter will be inefficient, etc.
In a way it’s pretty simple, whatever manufacturer you choose, there will be a converter they build for you that works the best, whether it’s a higher stall than you thought, or a lower stall than you thought. And unless you are running a lockup torque converter, which most of us on here are not, then you will always have slippage of the converter in high gear. There is also no “magic” number for converter slippage that says “when your converter slips x amount, the car will have its best ET and MPH”. There is no magic number because the number doesn’t exist. Every car and combo is different and every car has a converter that may be faster, but not as consistent, and maybe more consistent, but not as fast, etc etc. Please keep all of this in mind when contacting a manufacturer and describing what you want when you have a converter built.
Something I didn’t even get into is whether the converter is using a conventional sprag, mechanical diode, or billet steel spragless insert. That’s a whole other topic of conversation, but depending what the converter has also can affect stall speed, and efficiency. Same goes for an aluminum or steel stator.
Paul at Turbo Action is awesome to talk to. He’s very informative, he helps educate you, and he is able to offer information like he did for Korie when it comes to camshaft design, where the camshaft should be degreed in at, etc. He also will not give you a set number where a converter will stall at, he gives you a ballpark range, and for a very good reason. One thing Paul never asked me on the phone with the many many many 1hour+ long conversations I have had with him is “what power and torque did this engine make on the dyno?” Why? He knows that Dynos (like flow benches) are not all created equal. They are tools that we use as racers to help give us an edge.
I thoroughly believe in using flow benches when porting heads and engine dynos after assembling an engine. But the numbers are only as good as the equipment being used combined with the operator’s experience and knowledge to make those tools function properly. If Paul only cared about things such as peak torque and peak power, he would likely not be a very successful converter manufacturer. I myself am not a converter expert or “guru” for lack of a better term. But I do understand how they function and why things such as stall speed and efficiency are based on much much more than an engines peak power and torque level. I think as racers and automotive enthusiasts, if we all dug a little deeper into the inner workings of a torque converter, we would understand why things such as stall speed, are not mathematically certain.
Good example, close friend of mine and Pittsburghracer has vast experience with engine assembly, engine dyno, head porting, head flowing, and racing. He built himself a 540 big block back in 2012 and before putting it in the car, put it on a dyno. A dyno that he helped the machine owner build. The engine made peak torque of 740 ft/lbs at 5600 rpm (don’t quote me but it was around 5600, plus or minus 100), and it made peak engine horsepower of 880 at 7200-7300 rpm (again, plus or minus 100). He runs a turbo action converter that stalls at 6600-6800rpm.
On 1/4 mile, he always carries high MPH along with fast ET, and 60’ is always good when car hooks (90%+ of the time it hooks). So he is “flashing” his converter WAY above the peak torque value and the car hauls ***. When I talked to Paul about his torque converter (and my own torque converter) when I dropped the spare off on my way to vacation in 2021, I asked Paul if he advised of a stall change. If any change there was to make, he wanted both of us to increase stall speed! Because we were very happy with the way the converters functioned, and how the cars performed, we ultimately decided to not increase, but leave alone and keep for spares like they were intended to be anyway. I apologize for the long post, but I feel there is too much misconception out there about torque converters and where stall should be at, how a high stall converter will be inefficient, etc.
In a way it’s pretty simple, whatever manufacturer you choose, there will be a converter they build for you that works the best, whether it’s a higher stall than you thought, or a lower stall than you thought. And unless you are running a lockup torque converter, which most of us on here are not, then you will always have slippage of the converter in high gear. There is also no “magic” number for converter slippage that says “when your converter slips x amount, the car will have its best ET and MPH”. There is no magic number because the number doesn’t exist. Every car and combo is different and every car has a converter that may be faster, but not as consistent, and maybe more consistent, but not as fast, etc etc. Please keep all of this in mind when contacting a manufacturer and describing what you want when you have a converter built.
Something I didn’t even get into is whether the converter is using a conventional sprag, mechanical diode, or billet steel spragless insert. That’s a whole other topic of conversation, but depending what the converter has also can affect stall speed, and efficiency. Same goes for an aluminum or steel stator.
That's a ton of great information RJ
Thanks Korie! Like the 45th President of the United States said, he isn’t the smartest person out there, but he surrounds himself by the smartest people and listens to them. I try to live life the same way.
RJ is a good dude and my go to guy to talk all kinda ****. Just ask him. He'll tell you about the one time I made him tell the Dr. to "hold that thought" so he could leave the delivery room to answer some of my dumb questions.
RJ is a good dude and my go to guy to talk all kinda ****. Just ask him. He'll tell you about the one time I made him tell the Dr. to "hold that thought" so he could leave the delivery room to answer some of my dumb questions.
Thanks Bill! I enjoy our conversations. And yes I left the delivery room for a moment so we could talk hahaha. But my wife wasn’t in labor at that point, just sitting there watching TV. She knew about my addiction before we got married and still chose to marry me lol.
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