question about cooling your engine oil

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Ozzy

Ozzy

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I'm sure this isn't a novel idea, but here's the question:
My oil filter is being cooked by my headers. I thought about putting a heat shield sleeve on it, or maybe relocating the filter. Then I thought, well, if I'm gonna relocate the filter, why not run the oil through the trans fluid circuit in my radiator. I have a 4 speed, but the new radiator I got has a circuit for trans fluid that is currently plugged with bolts. If I hafta run hoses anyway, should I run the oil through the trans fluid circuit?
Are the ports in and out too small?
 
I don't even run the transmission through the radiator any more.

The issue with remote mounting is the length of the hose and all the fittings needed. It reduces flow and adds more places for a leak.

Don't know what you have for headers, but I'd rather have a 90* adapter than remote mount the filter. Unless you are going to run a minimum of -12 hose and buy hose ends with a radius rather than the tractor fittings I see some guys use.
 
yellow rose said:
I don't even run the transmission through the radiator any more.

The issue with remote mounting is the length of the hose and all the fittings needed. It reduces flow and adds more places for a leak.

Don't know what you have for headers, but I'd rather have a 90* adapter than remote mount the filter. Unless you are going to run a minimum of -12 hose and buy hose ends with a radius rather than the tractor fittings I see some guys use.
Click to expand...

Thanks y.r.- I'll check clearance for the 90*.
 
Are the tranny coolers rated for 80+psi? I know the cooler lines are under minimal pressure from the trans as they are just drain back lines. Also even the VW coolers use 1/2 inch tubing, let alone the 5/16 connectors used. I think the trans lines in the rad are alot smaller than that for volume to a V8. You could wrap the header pipe with Header wrap, that stuff works great. Some say it will weaken the header under its extreme heat retention but I wouldnt worry about it.
 
I think about this every time I change oil. Running TTI's with a Napa Gold 1085 filter. The thing to consider is that oil is constantly flowing through the filter. I don't believe it has much time to heat up. I don't run an oil temp gauge but my coolant temp has never been even a minor issue.

Unless you have a known oil temp issue, don't waste your time or money. Drive it like you stole it, brutha!
 
You can run dyno oil up to 230* no problem. If you get your cooling system up to that for any length of time, the engine is probably on it's way to a melt-down already.
I've been cooking my oil in the filter for over 100,000 miles, and it hasn't seemed to be a problem.
I run a shorty, no 90*adapter, and TTIs; but I also run dual full-length 3" pipes,without a cross-over, to get rid of that heat..
 
It’s best to separate the filter and cooler. You could wrap the header like said, but that’s only useful if you’re idle. The airflow through the engine compartment is sufficient to wisk away header heat. Using a bigger pan to hold more oil is what you want.
 
If you want effective cooling of the engine oil you should run an aluminum pan and a separate cooler. You don't need a thermostat or fan IMO, but it would keep the temps more consistent if it had those. There's little to no value to plumbing into the coolant radiator.
 
moper said:
There's little to no value to plumbing into the coolant radiator.
Click to expand...
I'm no engineer. I do contemplate their how and why in things they do. In the case of my 96 Camry 4 cyl. , there's a heat exchanger with coolant cycling through it installed between the oil filter and the engine block. The 2 fluids share temperature. These engines typically reach 300K + miles with a percentage surpassing 1/2 million miles.
 
RedFish said:
I'm no engineer. I do contemplate their how and why in things they do. In the case of my 96 Camry 4 cyl. , there's a heat exchanger with coolant cycling through it installed between the oil filter and the engine block. The 2 fluids share temperature. These engines typically reach 300K + miles with a percentage surpassing 1/2 million miles.
Click to expand...
My take on this is , first , the cooling lines in the rad. are too small ! Second, why don`t u just wrap the header in that location, and wrap the oil filter itself. I have been wrapping my starters for yrs ! Have never lost one yet .
 
pishta said:
Are the tranny coolers rated for 80+psi? I know the cooler lines are under minimal pressure from the trans as they are just drain back lines. Also even the VW coolers use 1/2 inch tubing, let alone the 5/16 connectors used. I think the trans lines in the rad are alot smaller than that for volume to a V8. You could wrap the header pipe with Header wrap, that stuff works great. Some say it will weaken the header under its extreme heat retention but I wouldnt worry about it.
Click to expand...
Thanks pishta.
 
famous bob said:
My take on this is , first , the cooling lines in the rad. are too small ! Second, why don`t u just wrap the header in that location, and wrap the oil filter itself. I have been wrapping my starters for yrs ! Have never lost one yet .
Click to expand...
I agree that the trans cooler in a radiator probably can't handle engine oil pressure. Just saying there may be some advantage to more equal fluid temperatures. Toyotas engineers thought so.
 
Ironmike said:
I think about this every time I change oil. Running TTI's with a Napa Gold 1085 filter. The thing to consider is that oil is constantly flowing through the filter. I don't believe it has much time to heat up. I don't run an oil temp gauge but my coolant temp has never been even a minor issue.

Unless you have a known oil temp issue, don't waste your time or money. Drive it like you stole it, brutha!
Click to expand...
Thanks Ironmike- my temp gauge is never an issue either. But my filter heats up to the point of leaking out the seal. I don't want to tighten it to solve that issue, or it'll cause another one...an oil filter that's permanent. (haha)
 
AJ/FormS said:
You can run dyno oil up to 230* no problem. If you get your cooling system up to that for any length of time, the engine is probably on it's way to a melt-down already.
I've been cooking my oil in the filter for over 100,000 miles, and it hasn't seemed to be a problem.
I run a shorty, no 90*adapter, and TTIs; but I also run dual full-length 3" pipes,without a cross-over, to get rid of that heat..
Click to expand...
I run a shorty too, but the seal leaks when the filter's frying. Does yours have that problem?
 
T56MaxTorq said:
It’s best to separate the filter and cooler. You could wrap the header like said, but that’s only useful if you’re idle. The airflow through the engine compartment is sufficient to wisk away header heat. Using a bigger pan to hold more oil is what you want.
Click to expand...
Thanks, MAX. That's a good point.
 
moper said:
If you want effective cooling of the engine oil you should run an aluminum pan and a separate cooler. You don't need a thermostat or fan IMO, but it would keep the temps more consistent if it had those. There's little to no value to plumbing into the coolant radiator.
Click to expand...
Thanks Moper. I see your point.
 
RedFish said:
I agree that the trans cooler in a radiator probably can't handle engine oil pressure. Just saying there may be some advantage to more equal fluid temperatures. Toyotas engineers thought so.
Click to expand...
the passages in a rad. aren`t as big as they need to be to feed an entire engine w/ oil .
 
Toyota must have an issue they’re trying to correct if they’re cooling engine oil like that.

Our engine oil is cooled by airflow from around the engine block, the and oil pan and by the water in the jackets. Moper is spot on, an aluminum pan will act as a heatsink and wick away heat much faster than stamped steel. Plus an aluminum pan will likely have more capacity. Synthetic oils really help by limiting oil breakdown for when it does get too hot.

IMO, most oil breakdown from overtemp comes from oil that is trapped in areas that doesnt drain back. Especially from the heads. When the engine is shutdown, the block and head temps go up because they are not in motion and the water pump isn’t operating. This bilge oil is exposed to excessive temps while the rest is in the pan, away from heat and cooling off nicely.
 
Ozzy said:
I run a shorty too, but the seal leaks when the filter's frying. Does yours have that problem?
Click to expand...
No,that's a separate issue'
Your system may be under too much pressure, or
the filter may not be tight enough,or
it may not even be the filter that is leaking.
When my engine was fresh, I installed 15W40, cuz you know, that's what we do when we think we have a race motor. Well that worked ok until I got on it, then it spewed oil onto my header, causing copious amounts of smoke. So, I'm no dummy; I put 10W30 in. Still the spewing persisted.
Well said I, maybe I am a dummy.
I had done the high-rpm oiling mods and I had installed a hi-volume pump.And I was running full capacity in the Milodon 7 qt roadrace pan.And you gotta know this; I was spinning it to 7200 with the Mopar 292/108 cam. So, I asked, how can I get rid of some of this pressure?
So I popped the valve covers and doubled the oil-clearances at the rocker arms; you know, shaved the spacers between each pair. Good to go right? Not. That made no difference,and after I thought about it some more;DUH, I am the dummy.
So them I put in 5W20, with great trepidation. That's gonna cure it right? Not.
Ok so now, I'm getting concerned. By now I had tried several different brands of filters with no difference, and I had checked the gasket between the plate and the block,even changed it. And I was not excited about running 5W20.
In desperation. I doubled up the plates, and drilled 4 more holes in them, for a total of 8 holes.
That cured it.No more problems with 10W30 or 10W40.
The restriction was right there at the the plate.

So, there ya go, pull the plate off and drill at least 2 more holes the same size as is on there, Or like I did; 4 more slightly smaller ones. Debur and chamfer them all, and away you go.

BTW
You can tighten the heck out that filter without fear of hurting it or the spigot; the mounting nut is not the weak point. At least not on any of the ones I tried,lol.

I can't say if doubling the plates is necessary anymore, but they're in there at least until the next time I take it apart. Why mess with what I know works. The funny thing is,if you add up all the area of just the oem 4 holes, it is well in excess of the largest gallery in the delivery system. Soooooo was it the extra holes, or the doubling, that cured my woes?
Happy HotRodding

More BTWs
That 367 engine has seen two other cams after that Mopar-brute , And I have spun them all to 7200, for a lot of the time.......and she has accumulated over 100,000 miles since inception in 99. I did take it apart the first 4 winters for inspection; I figured gaskets were cheaper than losing her. And the first two times I found problems budding. After upgrading as required, no more problems.So after 2004, she hasn't been open again, except to swap cams.
 
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I simply wrapped my headers that are close to the oil filter and rad lines...big reduction in temp and less we forget... the long lines to the rad themselves radiate heat... unless ur tracking the car on Laguna.... anything more than the aforementioned in my opinion is overkill....
 
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