Questions Regarding 383 Barracuda Engine Compartment

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zebra3

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Hello All,

I have been looking for a 1967-69 Barracuda for some time now, and have mostly focused my searches on small blocks due to the amount of negativity I read online regarding the handling characteristics and downsides of having a 383 or 440 in an A-Body. However, I have found someone selling a 383 Barracuda that I am enamored by, and hope that some of you guys can educate me.

The official Plymouth booklets for the car that were sent out in '67 state (regarding the 383): "And the engine compartment's so full of engine that there just isn't room for power steering or air conditioning."

Is this true? Could one not install one of the Borgeson power steering kits or something similar made from scrounged parts? Is there no way, due to there not being clearance, to install "classic air" or better yet, get together all the parts from junk cars to install an AC system, if you were willing to go to the effort and expense?

Thank you in advance.
 
for a while i had a 383 fitted in my 68 valiant with the stock power steering, 'plenty' of room relatively speaking. a/c would also be no issues especially using a much smaller modern compressor.
neil.
 
The 1969 383 Barracuda was available with power steering. That baloney about there not being enough room was just marketing to make folks think the engine is huge. A/C wasn't available, but has been made to fit since.
 
S'cuder said:
The 1969 383 Barracuda was available with power steering. That baloney about there not being enough room was just marketing to make folks think the engine is huge. A/C wasn't available, but has been made to fit since.
Click to expand...

Do you know if anyone (anywhere on the internet) has posted a guide detailing the process of being "made to fit?"

mygasser said:
for a while i had a 383 fitted in my 68 valiant with the stock power steering, 'plenty' of room relatively speaking. a/c would also be no issues especially using a much smaller modern compressor.
neil.
Click to expand...

Thanks Neil. I appreciate you guys jumping on my question. I'm assuming that the distributor cap would have to be relocated to make room for the compressor?
 
zebra3 said:
Do you know if anyone (anywhere on the internet) has posted a guide detailing the process of being "made to fit?"



Thanks Neil. I appreciate you guys jumping on my question. I'm assuming that the distributor cap would have to be relocated to make room for the compressor?
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i don't see why, the distributor lays over close to the pass' side valve cover so shouldn't be in the way. i planned to hang the a/c compressor low on the pass' side of the block out of sight.
neil.
 
Power steering would've always fit. One way to research it is to get the 1969 parts manual, and look up the part numbers for the components. Then look up the numbers in the indexes of other years to see if the parts were available and for which models.
 
I was there in 1968 and ordered my car personally as I worked at the dealership. P/S was not on the order list nor was A/C if you got the 383. This car arrived at the dealership April/May. It was manual steering. You would think that was a "late" 1968. I have since acquired another similar car WITH factory P/S. This has an even later production, closer to the end of production. How did they do it? The exhaust manifold on the left side is different making P/S available. So for 1968 there are two different left side exhaust manifolds, which is why when ordering new exhaust pipes you will be asked for the casting number on the manifold. So for '67-'69 cuds's (maybe Darts too?) all manual steering cars used the early style manifold, whereas late '68- '69 cars with P/S use the later manifold.
 
There's a lot of factory information available here.
Scroll to the bottom, and there are links to downloads for parts and service manuals. Having them for your car is a good first step.
MyMopar

When I got my current Barracuda, I passed on a 383 car because I didn't want my wife to say "Sure, you got a car I can't drive!". I bought a 340, automatic power steering and brakes car 13 years ago. She's never driven it!
:rofl:
 
zebra3 said:
Hello All,

I have been looking for a 1967-69 Barracuda for some time now, and have mostly focused my searches on small blocks due to the amount of negativity I read online regarding the handling characteristics and downsides of having a 383 or 440 in an A-Body. However, I have found someone selling a 383 Barracuda that I am enamored by, and hope that some of you guys can educate me.

The official Plymouth booklets for the car that were sent out in '67 state (regarding the 383): "And the engine compartment's so full of engine that there just isn't room for power steering or air conditioning."

Is this true? Could one not install one of the Borgeson power steering kits or something similar made from scrounged parts? Is there no way, due to there not being clearance, to install "classic air" or better yet, get together all the parts from junk cars to install an AC system, if you were willing to go to the effort and expense?

Thank you in advance.
Click to expand...
They just didn't want to take the engineering time to put it on, that's all. Power steering became available in late 68, my 68 383 4-speed GTS has it. The founder of the GTS registry had a 69 383 4-speed GTS convertible he had the dealership put A/C on using all factory parts. Everything is available to put power steering and A/C with factory or aftermarket parts on a big block A-body. And don't read all the hype about the handling characteristics being poor, of course it will be a bit worse than a small block A-Body, but you can make it better again with aftermarket parts...
 
The parts manual for 1968 lists the same left side manifold as 1969. PN 2946728 The date on the manual is March 1969, supersedes April 1968. Since this later manifold will fit both manual and power steering, it's likely the earlier number was discontinued.
The number for the '67 left side manifold is 2899001.
 
Buy it .. I love mine .. I have found power steering is not needed .. Mine handles great . AC would be nice .. cost about 3 grand to install .
 
CudaCraig said:
Buy it .. I love mine .. I have found power steering is not needed .. Mine handles great . AC would be nice .. cost about 3 grand to install .
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Haha I love the advice, I definitely want it, but the seller is asking a bit more than I'm good with so I need to wrap my head around that first. Anyway, I'm in my 30s, so I've never driven a car without power steering, except when my belt blew and I had to drive home without it in my 00s car...that sucked hard. The AC thing...right now I don't live in a 'hot' state, but I intend to move to one fairly soon, and if I do I get the feeling that I'll want to slowly gather up the needed parts and go through the arduous process of making that a thing. Pretty sure a few members here have done it and documented in threads their experience. This would be my first (and only) classic car purchase. I've been on this forum for I believe a couple years now just quietly gathering knowledge.
 
zebra3 said:
Haha I love the advice, I definitely want it, but the seller is asking a bit more than I'm good with so I need to wrap my head around that first. Anyway, I'm in my 30s, so I've never driven a car without power steering, except when my belt blew and I had to drive home without it in my 00s car...that sucked hard. The AC thing...right now I don't live in a 'hot' state, but I intend to move to one fairly soon, and if I do I get the feeling that I'll want to slowly gather up the needed parts and go through the arduous process of making that a thing. Pretty sure a few members here have done it and documented in threads their experience. This would be my first (and only) classic car purchase. I've been on this forum for I believe a couple years now just quietly gathering knowledge.
Click to expand...
The price of those old girls won't go down, so you'll need to jump on a car you want when it comes available. As long as it is in the condition that meets your expectations! Aftermarket aluminum heads, intake, and even front cover will lighten that engine a lot. Don't worry about the handling with the big block. There are things you can do to help that way beyond how it came from the factory!
 
also re your daily losing the ps belt, ps cars have a higher ratio box/rack than manual ones. then there is the inoperative system still being full of fluid which you were also having to push to and fro. a manual steer car is not as heavy as you may have been told, even when parking.
neil.
 
I own and have daily driven an original early 68 Formula S 383 automatic fastback Barracuda for years, the poor handling is malarkey. Mine did not have power steering or AC. The manual steering was not a problem and the wing windows and fresh air vents kept it surprising cool. But I grew up in Florida, so heat does not affect me much. If you want a modern car with all the bells and whistles you should just buy a newer car. There are companies that retrofit AC to older cars, maybe contact them? Did you drive the car you are looking at?
 
S'cuder said:
The parts manual for 1968 lists the same left side manifold as 1969. PN 2946728 The date on the manual is March 1969, supersedes April 1968. Since this later manifold will fit both manual and power steering, it's likely the earlier number was discontinued.
The number for the '67 left side manifold is 2899001.
Click to expand...

My 68 has the early drivers side exhaust manifold. casting # 2899002
 
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My 68 has a 451 stroker (400 block) with the Borgenson power steering . The car also had a Vintage Air system which I removed (muscle cars don't have air) Even being a black on black car. As stated earlier the wing windows open keeps the cabin surprisingly cool. As for handing I don't notice much of a difference between the big block car and my previous 340 car. I'd say the extra weight is a non-issue. My big block has aluminum heads and intake plus TTI headers which saves a lot of weight over cast iron.

IMG_3362.JPG


IMG_1505.JPG
 
RON REAGLE said:
My 68 has a 451 stroker (400 block) with the Borgenson power steering . The car also had a Vintage Air system which I removed (muscle cars don't have air) Even being a black on black car. As stated earlier the wing windows open keeps the cabin surprisingly cool. As for handing I don't notice much of a difference between the big block car and my previous 340 car. I'd say the extra weight is a non-issue. My big block has aluminum heads and intake plus TTI headers which saves a lot of weight over cast iron.

View attachment 1716188238

View attachment 1716188239
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what a pretty pair and 2 of my favourite wheel types on them :thumbsup:
neil.
 
If you decide you want A/C be advised that the '73 up cars had a different firewall for the A/C cars, versus non. So when retrofitting a 73 Up system, you will need the matching firewall or a major piece of it, and the 73-up A/C heater box with it's control panel, to operate the vacuum system.

Also, the 383 IIRC has a short stroke of 3.375 , and a large bore around 4.25 . This engine will NOT be fuel-thrifty. But lordy will it hammer the driveshaft, with a manual trans!
and btw, the 3.75inch 440 crank can be made to fit, lol.
 
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Ricks70Duster340 said:
The price of those old girls won't go down, so you'll need to jump on a car you want when it comes available. As long as it is in the condition that meets your expectations! Aftermarket aluminum heads, intake, and even front cover will lighten that engine a lot. Don't worry about the handling with the big block. There are things you can do to help that way beyond how it came from the factory!
Click to expand...

I'm a pretty handy guy when it comes to cars (though not nearly the expert many of you on here are) as I've been a 'driveway mechanic' since I was old enough to hold a flashlight for my dad. The classic car/muscle car thing is in my blood as he used to have 70s muscle and sometimes there's just something that calls to you. I've been watching the online ads weekly for a couple years now figuring either I'm going to take on a project for $ or buy something that someone already sunk the money into and I like the way they did it for $$$. Thanks for sharing your opinion about the big block.

mygasser said:
i also drove my 65 dart with no ps, pb (i did swap the front to discs) or ac as my daily after swapping the /6 for a 440. the steering was fine. :thumbsup:
neil.
Click to expand...

Thanks, that helps. I'm grateful to all you guys for sharing your experiences.
 
A big block A body actually has better weight distribution than a big block E body. Same wheelbase (Barracuda to Barracuda, or Dart to Challenger) and the E body has more front overhang and less rear overhang. So where did the evil handling myth come from? You gotta realize that even in the late sixties there were a lot of old school automotive journalists who were offended by the idea of putting a big motor in a small car.

As for the exhaust manifolds, I never knew that there were two different driver's side 68 manifolds. But I do have 67 and 69 383 A body exhaust manifolds. Most people assume that because the 67s had less rated horsepower, its manifolds were worse than later ones. The exhaust manifolds, though, weren't the difference between the hp rating of 67 vs 68 vs 69. Long story which I won't get into here (heads, intake, carb and cam). I will just say that I've always thought the change in the driver's side manifold was to make room for power steering (which my 69 Cuda 383 has). Just looking at the 67 vs 69 manifolds visually, it sure looks to me like the 67s would flow better. Have not backed that up with actual flow or dyno testing, though.

I second the above opinions on manual steering. Shoot, I'm 73 years old and can still drive my Hemi Charger with manual steering. Like all manual steering cars, only try to steer while the car is moving, not dead stopped. I laugh when I see someone back up with the front wheels cocked all the way in one direction, come to a stop with the wheels still full turned, and then try to turn the wheels the other direction while remaining stopped. Trick is to straighten the wheels while still backing, and then move forward, any more turning only after you're moving.
 
Handing? Let me put it this way- no Mustang or Camaro ever beat me in a drag race.
 
FYI;
My alloy-headed 367, 68 Barracuda only needs a lil over a hundred pounds moved to the back to be near 50/50 weight bias. But I am not giving up my P/S, nor my P/B
I have modded my box several times to the point which, it now feels like a slightly assisted manual box, but as you know, the P/S box is a 15 and change to 1 ratio, versus the 24:1 manual box.
This means that, the many times that I have got myself into trouble, the fast easy steer P/S, has saved my bacon. and
that means I confidently do more stupid stuff.

My car used to have a manual steering box, and a monster factory steering wheel, and I'm never going back to it.
And I can't tell you how much fun, slow-motion, tires on fire, and one-handed figure-eights are ...... with my fat-rimmed tiny steering wheel ......

I have had all-drum A's, with and without boost, and I ain't going back to that either. and
I had one db/no booster A, and no thanks.
I put boosters on everything, then fine tune them to perform how I want them to.

But I gotta tell ya, 67-8-9 Barracuda rear wheelhouses will accept up to 325/50-15s on 10s with minor mods and centering, but will require some caution during cornering depending on your ride-height. I run 295s so I can and do, corner with confidence. I mean, I'm a streeter, so this sometimes involves screaming tires and full-lock steering, just to not wipe out. I hate wiping out. My car used to wipe out all the time. But I just kept putting bigger and bigger tires on it until it behaved.
Therefore; tires are your first defense against crashing. Well no, leaving the car in the garage is the first ....... lol.
I finished my restomod, just in time for my son's Graduation, and shortly after him getting a driver's license. He took that "new" car to grad, with friends, and I never lost a second of sleep over it, cuz, that car knew how to protect itself. It steered where it was pointed, stopped on a dime, and if you got yourself crossed up, just clutch it, and she would straighten herself right out. My son and his friends had a blast, and twenty years later, I am still hearing new stories from both..

May you and yours enjoy your car in the same way.
 
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